bad barrel? 9mm, help me troubleshoot my barrel

[arakboss]

after the couple week pause and looking at this with a fresh mind my guess is Im highly doubtful Alpha would send me another barrel with the same issue....
So that thought makes me rethink its the Fiocci ammo.


@Reno I think you were right here.... this is one of the Fiocchi rounds that jammed the old Alpha barrel. This still sits high in the new Alpha barrel. So I colored it up with a sharpie and plunked it in, pressed it down. Had to pry it out... it looks like the ogive is wedging into the lands or whatever part of the chamber that is past the case rim.
I wonder if I was to pull this bullet (not fire it) if the case would drop flush into the new Alpha barrel chamber. Would that prove its the ammo?
But then why would this one fit in my Sig 9mm barrel and the Swenson barrel...?

View attachment 1438242

Some barrels have looser chambers and would allow for a wider variety of ammo to fit them well. Alpha SS may have tighter chambers.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

It looks like the Alpha's are built without much of a throat/freebore in front of the chamber.

 

[Koda]

Some barrels have looser chambers and would allow for a wider variety of ammo to fit them well. Alpha SS may have tighter chambers.

Why would they intentionally do this?

It makes no sense to have a gun that's picky about ammo.

 

[arakboss]

Why would they intentionally do this?

It makes no sense to have a gun that's picky about ammo.

Accuracy?

 

[Koda]

Accuracy?

Accuracy is the same between the tight Alpha barrel and the loose cheap Swenson barrel.
And by Accuracy I mean both are absolute tack drivers. The gun it probably the most precise shooter I own.

 

[Member 34319]

after the couple week pause and looking at this with a fresh mind my guess is Im highly doubtful Alpha would send me another barrel with the same issue....
So that thought makes me rethink its the Fiocci ammo.


@Reno I think you were right here.... this is one of the Fiocchi rounds that jammed the old Alpha barrel. This still sits high in the new Alpha barrel. So I colored it up with a sharpie and plunked it in, pressed it down. Had to pry it out... it looks like the ogive is wedging into the lands or whatever part of the chamber that is past the case rim.
I wonder if I was to pull this bullet (not fire it) if the case would drop flush into the new Alpha barrel chamber. Would that prove its the ammo?
But then why would this one fit in my Sig 9mm barrel and the Swenson barrel...?

View attachment 1438242

Bullet is hitting rifling. If you had to squeeze it into the chamber to get the case to headspace it could be this ammo don't like that barrel. If you had a Sheridan gauge you could test the ammo in an absolute SAMMI specd chamber to see if it is in fact the ammo. (Or measure every surface and circumference on the round with calibers and compare it to SAMMI spec).

If you have a block of Cerrosafe sitting around you could cast the chamber and then measure the casting against SAMMI specs.

As for why the other barrels chamber thus? I cant tell if it is the ammo or chamber of the barrel without at least knowing one is in fact off via a gauge or measurements.

Could be a tight chamber, off spec chamber, off spec ammo, both!

Keep in mind. Mass produced ammo wonders of spec as the machines wear. As do chamber reamers.

 

[Koda]

Bullet is hitting rifling. If you had to squeeze it into the chamber to get the case to headspace it could be this ammo don't like that barrel. If you had a Sheridan gauge you could test the ammo in an absolute SAMMI specd chamber to see if it is in fact the ammo. (Or measure every surface and circumference on the round with calibers and compare it to SAMMI spec).

I have measured the rounds with calipers and while on the larger side they measure in spec. I put on in a mag and safely cycled it and it jammed up the action, had to mortar the slide to get it out.

Alpha sent me a brand new barrel, cant ask for more service than that. But the new barrel is still doing the same thing. I find it difficult to believe they would send me a new barrel to replace the old one without checking it. The Fiocchi ammo slides right into my other 9mm barrels chambers just fine.

My guess right now is Alpha runs their chambers tight, on purpose (for whatever meritless reason...). I see no point in using the Alpha barrel, on anything. The cheap Swenson barrel has been running fine now. Its not a smooth cycling the slide. Im using that and calling it done and will look into a different nice barrel like a KKM to get back a smooth slide, I hope.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

You need to figure out the throat in the Alpha barrels. Everything you're describing sounds like the bullet is hitting the rifling before the case is completely in the chamber. It isn't the OAL that's giving you fits, it's the profile of the bullet and the short throat in the barrel. I'd bet dollars to dog turds that a truncated cone style bullet with all other factors being the same would work just fine in that barrel.
Have you tried the 'bad' cartridges in a case gauge? That'll tell you lickety split if the cases are out of spec.

 

[Koda]

You need to figure out the throat in the Alpha barrels. Everything you're describing sounds like the bullet is hitting the rifling before the case is completely in the chamber. It isn't the OAL that's giving you fits, it's the profile of the bullet and the short throat in the barrel. I'd bet dollars to dog turds that a truncated cone style bullet with all other factors being the same would work just fine in that barrel.
Have you tried the 'bad' cartridges in a case gauge? That'll tell you lickety split if the cases are out of spec.

I dont have a case gauge. Reno has suggested here I should get headspace and case gauges if I want to continue to build other builds and now Im agreeing thats a good idea.
Right now I dont have one.
I agree it could be the throat of the Alpha barrel, the mark on the bullet ogive is pretty obvious. I just dont know why a higher end barrel would throat so tight but I understand bullet profiles are not standardized.
Your right all my other ammo bullet profiles run thru the Alpha barrel. I need to double check this but I think were homing in on the exact problem: the throat not necessarily the chamber.

 

[Member 34319]

My guess right now is Alpha runs their chambers tight, on purpose (for whatever meritless reason...).

Might be tighter to SAMMI spec or under even. Hard to say.

I know some manufacturers cut chambers out of spec on purpose. To allow for better reliability over the broad spectrum of ammo available, some might go wide off specs. Some go closer or below standard specs to create something that might squeeze more precision out of the equation. Some don't do it on purpose and might have ran a chamber cutting tool a million times without replacement or repair or even gauging it to their own specs.

It's all about stacking tolerances. Too tight and nothing would move/work. Too loose and it might work well, but not hit a barn.

It gets even whackier when you, the consumer, can pick and choose from 100s if not 1000s of different Glock barrels and put them into another brands slide, with another brands internals, all on another brands frame.

Cherry on top being that there is no "mil-spec" to reference when it comes to the Gen 3 Glock clones. At least with the AR if it says "mil-spec" chances are it should fit with any brand as long as they are also using military specs for the AR15 parts they build.

 

[Koda]

Might be tighter to SAMMI spec or under even. Hard to say.

I know some manufacturers cut chambers out of spec on purpose. To allow for better reliability over the broad spectrum of ammo available, some might go wide off specs. Some go closer or below standard specs to create something that might squeeze more precision out of the equation. Some don't do it on purpose and might have ran a chamber cutting tool a million times without replacement or repair or even gauging it to their own specs.

It's all about stacking tolerances. Too tight and nothing would move/work. Too loose and it might work well, but not hit a barn.

It gets even whackier when you, the consumer, can pick and choose from 100s if not 1000s of different Glock barrels and put them into another brands slide, with another brands internals, all on another brands frame.

Cherry on top being that there is no "mil-spec" to reference when it comes to the Gen 3 Glock clones. At least with the AR if it says "mil-spec" chances are it should fit with any brand as long as they are also using military specs for the AR15 parts they build.

This is all true except my replacement barrel has the same issue as the original. I just find it hard to believe Alpha is intentionally building barrels with tight throats and would not have sent me a replacement if they didnt think my old barrel was out of spec.

 

[Member 34319]

This is all true except my replacement barrel has the same issue as the original. I just find it hard to believe Alpha is intentionally building barrels with tight throats and would not have sent me a replacement if they didnt think my old barrel was out of spec.

It happens. I recently got back to back, yes two in a row, scopes from Arken Optics that had faulty parallax knobs. I did not strike out though. I chose the refund after the second, as I'd be really mad if I got 3 in a row! Either it was a rare instance of two bad scopes, or their whole line of scopes have that same issue? I'll never really know! I did receive outstanding customer service throughout the ordeal though. Can't say the same for my mattress shopping!

 

[Koda]

It happens. I recently got back to back, yes two in a row, scopes from Arken Optics that had faulty parallax knobs. I did not strike out though. I chose the refund after the second, as I'd be really mad if I got 3 in a row! Either it was a rare instance of two bad scopes, or their whole line of scopes have that same issue? I'll never really know! I did receive outstanding customer service throughout the ordeal though. Can't say the same for my mattress shopping!

It happens too much these days. My whole life it was rare, my dad had to send a S&W revolver back once like 30 years ago and they fixed it the first time.
But in just the last 10 years Ive had to send back 3 guns a minimum of 2 to 5 times each, 2 full replacements, 6 months to over a year before resolution. Somethings changed in the manufacturing world.

At least I only need to buy a new barrel this time.

 

[arakboss]

Midway has a number of the Swenson barrels on sale for $50ea right now.

 

[whiskeybill]

I rebarreled an old Star 9mm years ago, and wouldn't ya know it, the same thing happened to me. Turns out the only bullet that would not chamber were the XTP. The shoulder on that bullet profile was just enough to jam the round up good and tight in the chamber, out of battery. As long as I use a round nose type profile, it runs just fine.

 

[Koda]

Threads revived...

I rebarreled an old Star 9mm years ago, and wouldn't ya know it, the same thing happened to me.

Seems like once one goes custom anything is open to go wrong. I just find it odd that factory guns run everything fine but custom parts... barrels are unique and cause issues. I would think gunsmiths would know how to make a barrel... or, maybe they are just barrel makers and not gunsmiths. I dunno.

 

[Koda]

to update, the cheapo Swenson barrel runs all ammo and is incredibly accurate. I don't have experience with other high end barrels but I do have experience shooting and there is no need to replace the Swenson barrel.

As for the gun build, after the Swenson swap it ran for a while, I had a random stovepipe every 50-100 ish rounds. Annoying but consistently a stovepipe so I put in a Wolff recoil spring thats 1lb lighter than the stock Glock recoil assembly and so far no stove pipes but I need to run more thru it to validate.


Building your own custom build is fun, but your on your own....

 

[Stomper]

The closest old American Indian word for "bad barrel" means bad hunter, it's "Vegetarian".

 

[DirectDrive]

The closest old American Indian word for "bad barrel" means bad hunter, it's "Vegetarian".

And it's easy to tell when they've been snooping around your camp.

 

[Stomper]

And it's easy to tell when they've been snooping around your camp.

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Now we know why Carrot Top never wears sandals!