AZ immigration law: I guess I'm a conspiracy theory nutjob.

[Just Jim]

Well what will letting illegals come and live here do to your gun rights? What will the violence they do bring to your gun rights. Will you need your gun rights as the people get stuck on the dope they bring up and need to rob your house to keep their habit going. Illegals are a gun rights problem.

jj

 

[hjohnsonjr]

Several legal jurist types interviewed and televised have pointed out the AZ law is a mirror of the Fed law that isn't being enforced. As far as proof of citizenship, etc., there is no difference with this new law and every other country I have first hand knowledge of (something around 2 dozen). And in some of those democratic countries such as India, a person must surrender their passport to the hotel in which they rent a room. It then gets checked out. Since the fed law is very very close, and the feds currently ask for the same papers, overturning the law would probably be over who's back yard (votes in the next election) enforcement belongs in.
Some of my family in eastern europe couldn't come to this country even on a visitors viza after the iron curtain fell, and wouldn't try because they would be illegial. To say a law should not be enforced because it might be unfair to one ethnic group is racism by itself. That is how this is being cut by the left. Fact is, the feds are enforcing their immigration laws on the basis of race right now (check it out). So that argument doesn't hold water. Shame on the federal government for not taking action before this. It's all about who wants power and voter while the people in Arizona and the rest of us are left in the dust. I'm for it and I encourage complete enforcement.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I'm less concerned about people trying to rob my home because they're junkies on Mexican-trafficked cocaine or hash and more concerned about the junkies that are high on meth that's more often than not manufactured by white people in my own state.

 

[CEF1959]

I'm more worried about outrageous behavior by the fringe-right when it comes to my gun rights. I think some of the goofy things legal-American nutjobs do and say are much more counterproductive to gun rights than anything done by illegals.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I'm more worried about outrageous behavior by the fringe-right when it comes to my gun rights. I think some of the goofy things legal-American nutjobs do and say are much more counterproductive to gun rights than anything done by illegals.

Well yeah, that too.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You missed the point.

The immigration issue is not much different than the perception of a gun problem within the U.S. Get the current laws on the books enforced and then see if there's a need for additional legislation.

That it's not enforced today is obvious. Just like many gun laws on the books. If they were all enforced do we think there would be immigration and gun perception problems? Far less, I suspect.

You missed my point, actually. The feds in their current state are never going to enforce illegal immigration laws vigorously. The States are now forced to step up to the plate

And also I disagree that we need stricter enforcement of gun laws, most of them are utterly unconstitutional

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm less concerned about people trying to rob my home because they're junkies on Mexican-trafficked cocaine or hash and more concerned about the junkies that are high on meth that's more often than not manufactured by white people in my own state.

Reality check, mexican made and trafficked meth is a huge share of the "market"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/etc/updmexico.html

 

[Just Jim]

I'm less concerned about people trying to rob my home because they're junkies on Mexican-trafficked cocaine or hash and more concerned about the junkies that are high on meth that's more often than not manufactured by white people in my own state.

80% of all meth comes across the Mxican border. Government has halted the sales of the stuff it takes to make meth here.

jj

 

[Blitzkrieg]

80% of all meth comes across the Mxican border. Government has halted the sales of the stuff it takes to make meth here.

jj

Don't confuse 'em with facts

Meth is a horrible scourge, probably the worst of the street drugs, and now the mexican drug cartels have taken over the market

 

[SonicBlue03]

You missed my point, actually. The feds in their current state are never going to enforce illegal immigration laws vigorously. The States are now forced to step up to the plate

And also I disagree that we need stricter enforcement of gun laws, most of them are utterly unconstitutional

That was your point? There's a difference between "they're not" and "they'll never." Never is a long time. And the government - regardless of party - has shown to be ineffective up to this point. Do I agree that it doesn't appear to be changing? Sure, I can agree with that. Do I think the AZ law was symbolic and just a little bit silly with people like Sheriff Joe around? Yeah.

I disagree that many of those gun laws that go unenforced are unconsitutional - but would like to hear your take on which ones in particular are.

 

[Just Jim]

I'm more worried about outrageous behavior by the fringe-right when it comes to my gun rights. I think some of the goofy things legal-American nutjobs do and say are much more counterproductive to gun rights than anything done by illegals.

You will find there are far more violent loones on the left than on the right. Some of them work for the whitehouse.

jj

 

[SonicBlue03]

Don't confuse 'em with facts

Meth is a horrible scourge, probably the worst of the street drugs, and now the mexican drug cartels have taken over the market

His facts are wrong. Your facts said 65%. His said 80%.

They've increased their presence because U.S. labs aren't keeping up with demand and there's a hole to fill. Is it their fault that Americans are weak-minded simps that get addicted to the latest and greatest?

Sounds like a business opportunity to me. Ironically as American as Apple Pie in that regard.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

That was your point? There's a difference between "they're not" and "they'll never." Never is a long time. And the government - regardless of party - has shown to be ineffective up to this point. Do I agree that it doesn't appear to be changing? Sure, I can agree with that. Do I think the AZ law was symbolic and just a little bit silly with people like Sheriff Joe around? Yeah.

I disagree that many of those gun laws that go unenforced are unconsitutional - but would like to hear your take on which ones in particular are.

1934 NFA, 1968 GCA, aspects of 1984 "FOPA", etc

 

[SonicBlue03]

1934 NFA, 1968 GCA, aspects of 1984 "FOPA", etc

So what about those do you find unconstitutional? And more importantly, why do you think they haven't been overturned on constitutional grounds by the Court?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

His facts are wrong. Your facts said 65%. His said 80%.

They've increased their presence because U.S. labs aren't keeping up with demand and there's a hole to fill. Is it their fault that Americans are weak-minded simps that get addicted to the latest and greatest?

Sounds like a business opportunity to me. Ironically as American as Apple Pie in that regard.

So you're making excuses for murderous mexican drug cartels because idiot junkies in the US buy their poison? I guess we don't have much left to talk about if that is what passes for logic with you :huh:

 

[Blitzkrieg]

So what about those do you find unconstitutional? And more importantly, why do you think they haven't been overturned on constitutional grounds by the Court?

The courts are corrupt and I doubt you would do more than be a devil's advocate if I wasted the time to explain why they are unconstitutional

If you cannot read the acts and then the 2nd amendment and see why, I cannot help ya

 

[SonicBlue03]

I think their business model is similar to any business that moves in to exploit a niche. Putting the blame solely on them is silly and apologist for bad behavior by the addicts. The U.S. used to be built on personal accountability, but it seems that somehow along the lines people forgot about that and are quick to point fingers outward but never inward.

 

[Chee-to]

There is a system called E- Verifie that checks peoples papers and it works yet the government doesn't want it used due to politics. The corruption of our government is beyond the pale.

jj

Both of our illustrious lefty senators voted not to extend E verify....

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I think their business model is similar to any business that moves in to exploit a niche. Putting the blame solely on them is silly and apologist for bad behavior by the addicts. The U.S. used to be built on personal accountability, but it seems that somehow along the lines people forgot about that and are quick to point fingers outward but never inward.

That is an absurd "argument" as you are giving a pass to killers and poison traffickers. I blame both, you make excuses for one side of the evil coin. Do you have a dog in this fight?

 

[SonicBlue03]

The courts are corrupt and I doubt you would do more than be a devil's advocate if I wasted the time to explain why they are unconstitutional

If you cannot read the acts and then the 2nd amendment and see why, I cannot help ya

Translation: "I don't know."

I asked a legitimate question. What specifically do YOU have a problem with in those examples. The restriction of imports? The restriction on felons and the mentally ill? Ban of specific weapons that are catered to by other (domestic) manufacturers? If you don't feel you can answer it, that's fine. Just say, "It's just how I feel." That's a perfectly acceptable answer too.