National ATF is going after FRT

[Horatius]

ok I get it, You know stuff. but as of right now its still a brace!

 

[asiparks]

So, do you have any physical handicaps? My twin brother has juvenile onset Rheumatoid arthritis, He can only shoot my AR pistol with a brace! I will point out the rubbish you spew affects others!

Are you saying it's easier for him to actually use the velcro strap and shoot it one handed like a pistol rather than use both hands and a shoulder like it was , er, a stock ?
What about you shooting your AR pistol ? You going to say you don't use it like a stock ?
Doubtless there are quite a few others for whom the argument could be made that they need a brace. But get real, braces are a way to have a stocked, short barreled rifle or PPC without the tax stamp.

 

[wired]

ok I get it, You know stuff. but as of right now its still a brace!

Thats where the SCOTUS EPA decision is going to come into play. This will make it to at least the circuit court level . Government agencies do not have the authority to make rules without the rule of law passed by Congress. The ATF made the rule that braces were not buttstocks about a decade ago. Rulings bad remember? There is as good a chance that that will get thrown out as there is a chance that braces will be allowed. Id say better since Congress passed the NFA and any court in the land is going to rule them to be a stock. The ATF cannot just say they do something else too.

 

[ColeInOregon]

So as far as I can tell the discussion of buttstocks, braces, politics, and the IRS has little if anything to do with the topic of the forced reset trigger. Let's stay on topic before the mods get wind and close this thread as it's still playing out and this thread contains useful information.

 

[Alexx1401]

The IRS doesnt handle the enforcement of excise tax collection on stamped items like Alcohol, tobacco and of course firearms. That is administered by the ATF. I dont know where this feat that the IRS is coming after you for NFA offenses is coming from.

People love to panic. Ever since it was announced the IRS was hiring a bunch of new people and buying a lot of guns imaginations run wild. The video I watched that the IRS put out showing the training? The people who need to worry about armed IRS agents are the agents who work with them.

 

[Alexx1401]

So as far as I can tell the discussion of buttstocks, braces, politics, and the IRS has little if anything to do with the topic of the forced reset trigger. Let's stay on topic before the mods get wind and close this thread as it's still playing out and this thread contains useful information.

"Thread drift" is the norm here. The Mods normally do not get worked up until the personal insults and name calling starts in with people who can't control their emotions. THAT is what gets them shut down. Almost every thread I ever follow here seems to drift all over. Normally still great fun and info until some get angry and do stuff to get it shut down.

 

[ColeInOregon]

"Thread drift" is the norm here. The Mods normally do not get worked up until the personal insults and name calling starts in with people who can't control their emotions. THAT is what gets them shut down. Almost every thread I ever follow here seems to drift all over. Normally still great fun and info until some get angry and do stuff to get it shut down.

Lulz! I have been here a minute or two, let's keep this thread on track.

 

[wired]

Lulz! I have been here a minute or two, let's keep this thread on track.

It's all related.

 

[nwslopoke]

Whats stopping them? Attorneys. You might feel like the ATF and the IRS just go around willy nilly doing what they want based on whatever vague Executive Order they get thrown in front of them but that feeling is just a feeling. They get stopped in their tracks by attorneys who cut through that crap all the time. As far as shouldering a brace goes they ONLY reason they screwed up and allowed those things in the first place is they got flim flammed . Theyre stocks. Go ahead and make the effort of arguing how they were designed so disabled veterans could fire their guns with one hand. Please. Thats total BS . You know it. I know it. They know it. They didnt have the authority to rewrite the NFA to allow buttstocks that also work as braces on pistols then and they dont have it now.

I generally like and agree with your posts, but, attorneys are a reactive entity. First someone, in this case a big government agency, attacks you causing you to respond. As much as I respect the law, law enforcement agents and agencies are not on your side until the court clears you thousands of dollars later.

And the current state of the ATF can only be described as willy nilly. They make a ruling, reverse it, then say we'll you can do it, IF XXX. Well, is it a danger to society or not?

I don't like these agencies changing the definition of things just because they can't beat existing protections we have over them. What is a machine gun? It has a long standing description.

What they are attempting to do is have us agree to a lie. I'm not there yet.

 

[wired]

I generally like and agree with your posts, but, attorneys are a reactive entity. First someone, in this case a big government agency, attacks you causing you to respond. As much as I respect the law, law enforcement agents and agencies are not on your side until the court clears you thousands of dollars later.

The thing is all it takes is one case to set legal precedence and send it to appellate and circuit. The likelihood that that one case is going to be you is small and in the age of go fund me that first cases bankroll to fund the lawyers can get pretty large. In the FRT case people had been throwing money at them for quite a while who never were going to use their trigger just to get money into the RB legal fund. . That doesnt mean they werent going to sell it for a tidy profit on Gunbroker now does it? No one has been prosecuted in the RB FRT debacle for owning an illegal machinegun and theres a reason for that. Even RB isnt under indictment as far as I can tell. It's RB doing the legal wrangling. Helps that the company is attorney owned.

 

[Flopsweat]

The words "intent" and "design" have specific meanings. Intent is a difficult thing to prove. if you can prove that I installed a brace on a gun with the intent of shouldering it, you might have a beginning at finding a way to prove it's a stock. Since you can't, it's a brace.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

The thing is all it takes is one case to set legal precedence and send it to appellate and circuit. The likelihood that that one case is going to be you is small and in the age of go fund me that first cases bankroll to fund the lawyers can get pretty large. In the FRT case people had been throwing money at them for quite a while who never were going to use their trigger just to get money into the RB legal fund. . That doesnt mean they werent going to sell it for a tidy profit on Gunbroker now does it? No one has been prosecuted in the RB FRT debacle for owning an illegal machinegun and theres a reason for that. Even RB isnt under indictment as far as I can tell. It's RB doing the legal wrangling. Helps that the company is attorney owned.

people buying triggers to support RBs legal fund then selling them on gun broker, tacswap, armslist or even FTF could still possibly get a visit from the ATF i would think. aside from saying nothing id imagine they'd have to talk to an attorney to get it straightened out. if a guy told the ATF "sorry, i dont have it because i sold it" i doubt theyd believe'm especially if it was sold cash FTF.

 

[wired]

people buying triggers to support RBs legal fund then selling them on gun broker, tacswap, armslist or even FTF could still possibly get a visit from the ATF i would think. aside from saying nothing id imagine they'd have to talk to an attorney to get it straightened out. if a guy told the ATF "sorry, i dont have it because i sold it" i doubt theyd believe'm especially if it was sold cash FTF.

Yeah. I have several I sold Not worried at all. The burden of proof is on the ATF

 

[titsonritz]

It's all related.

It's all retarded.

 

[jbett98]

What about the other companies that make these triggers?

 

[wired]

What about the other companies that make these triggers?

There are no fully functional triggers on the market. Some need user mods . RB is essentially out of business

 

[jbett98]

Same as Wide Open Triggers?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Latest wa gun law video says to destroy the trigger and document it then hire them to hold the documentation.

That guy who had atf visit and posted the atf letter bought his off of gunbroker. in the letter atf named the gun broker seller. I had always assumed some of the gunbroker sellers were an atf sting operation. There are sellers even now selling them on gunbroker which has to be an atf sting I would think.

 

[wired]

One GB seller got raised and gave up his sales list. He sold a lot of them.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

One GB seller got raised and gave up his sales list. He sold a lot of them.

Makes sense. Wouldn't be hard for ATF to squeeze him.