National ATF is going after FRT

[3MTA3]

Why would a person even answer the door?

How do you know it's the ATF vs the guy with the Publisher's Clearing House check?

 

[Flopsweat]

How do you know it's the ATF vs the guy with the Publisher's Clearing House check?

Just leave your dog out front...

 

[sobo]

How do you know it's the ATF vs the guy with the Publisher's Clearing House check?

I'm still waiting for Ed McMahon to show up...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I'm still waiting for Ed McMahon to show up...

 

[wired]

View attachment 1266072

Let's all take a moment to just step back and appreciate that this is what we have come to in society…federal agents can potentially pay you a visit (or much worse) just because you are, or were, in possession of a piece of machined metal.

The Founding Fathers would be so proud…

Which isnt any different than the ATF paying you a visit for a unregistered DIAS ( the visit part of course) .
Do a little research on what the founding fathers were OK with. Jefferson advocated boring a 1/2" diameter hole through the nose of adulteresses. The punishment for men being MUCH worse at 100 lashes with a whip. This from a guy who repeatedly raped his slave(s).

Washington sent a federal army to Pennsylvania to collect taxes from indigent farmers.

Hamilton? Killed for good reason. Burr wasnt much better.

 

[johnly]

Is it true that "No Trespassing" signs prevent LE from coming on to your property for a warrant-less "Knock and Talk"?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Is it true that "No Trespassing" signs prevent LE from coming on to your property for a warrant-less "Knock and Talk"?

Never heard that before. I don't think that would fly. It's not like they are canvassing the neighborhood. Oh wait maybe they are!

 

[johnly]

I should have done a search first, as it's not the case..

Can "No Trespassing" signs keep out Police? | Maniatis Law PLLC

You may wonder if "No Trespassing" signs can legally keep out police and other law enforcement officers. What if ... Criminal Defense

www.maniatislawoffice.com

The Court's Holding
Not every entry onto property is a search, and the Court found that the officers were merely trying to engage in voluntary discussions with the Defendant, commonly referred to as "knock-and-talk." There is an implied consent for the public, including police officers, to be able to approach an unobstructed residence and knock on the front door. The "No Trespassing" signs did nothing to revoke this implied consent in this case. However, had the driveway onto the Defendant's property been obstructed with a gate, or some other intended obstacle, it is possible it would have been an unlawful entry.

Conclusion
"No Trespassing" signs by themselves do not make it illegal for police to approach your residence and attempt to speak to you.
************

Seems a fence, locked gate, or a Rottweiler in conjunction with signage might be sufficient.

 

[johnly]

How do you know it's the ATF vs the guy with the Publisher's Clearing House check?

Perhaps because I didn't waste a stamp by entering the Publisher's Clearing Sweepstakes??

 

[Yarome]

Is it true that "No Trespassing" signs prevent LE from coming on to your property for a warrant-less "Knock and Talk"?

Kinda, but not really, and depends too on how your properties curtilage (understood "domain" immediately surrounding your primary dwelling) is established.

With most typical home properties, there is presumptive permission for any citizen (including LE) to approach your front door, knock/ring, allow a brief period of time, and then leave. That permission may be revoked at any time by the landowner or agent. In that sense, and without any special conditions, a LEO has no more rights to be on your property than any other citizen.

Some other factors can apply though. Like if your property is completely fenced, the driveway gated and locked, and no trespassing signs posted, that presumptive permission can be defined a bit differently, but likely going to end up before a judge on a case by case basis as to if a LEO was guilty of trespass or excercising presumptive permission.

It certainly improves the odds of a decision in your favor though.

The rules are a bit contradictory, but typically... say for most typical homeowners... a person isn't trespassing simply by stepping over your property line. The preumptive permission must be revoked (get the bubblegum off my property!) and the person then doesn't leave. Including LEO's.

Even if you have a "no trespassing" sign out front, I "could" be considered along the same lines as a sign saying "no guns allowed" at your local shopping mall.

Some of those laws certainly vary by state though and always good to consult an attorney for a more educated opinion.

Edit: Ooops.. NOW I see Johnly's post above. My bad!!

 

[mhayd93]

Which isnt any different than the ATF paying you a visit for a unregistered DIAS ( the visit part of course) .
Do a little research on what the founding fathers were OK with. Jefferson advocated boring a 1/2" diameter hole through the nose of adulteresses. The punishment for men being MUCH worse at 100 lashes with a whip. This from a guy who repeatedly raped his slave(s).

Washington sent a federal army to Pennsylvania to collect taxes from indigent farmers.

Hamilton? Killed for good reason. Burr wasnt much better.

Whatever point you were trying to make was drowned out by the words of the 2nd Amendment echoing in my head, sorry!

 

[Yarome]

Is it true that "No Trespassing" signs prevent LE from coming on to your property for a warrant-less "Knock and Talk"?

I guess one additional to remember, without a warrant LEO's have no special authority compelling you to open your door or even respond to their knock/ring... just like any other person.

Presumptive permission also does not allow a person, or LEO, to "cruise" around your homes curtiledge or peek over your fences.

 

[3MTA3]

I should have done a search first, as it's not the case..

Can "No Trespassing" signs keep out Police? | Maniatis Law PLLC

You may wonder if "No Trespassing" signs can legally keep out police and other law enforcement officers. What if ... Criminal Defense

www.maniatislawoffice.com

The Court's Holding
Not every entry onto property is a search, and the Court found that the officers were merely trying to engage in voluntary discussions with the Defendant, commonly referred to as "knock-and-talk." There is an implied consent for the public, including police officers, to be able to approach an unobstructed residence and knock on the front door. The "No Trespassing" signs did nothing to revoke this implied consent in this case. However, had the driveway onto the Defendant's property been obstructed with a gate, or some other intended obstacle, it is possible it would have been an unlawful entry.

Conclusion
"No Trespassing" signs by themselves do not make it illegal for police to approach your residence and attempt to speak to you.
************

Seems a fence, locked gate, or a Rottweiler in conjunction with signage might be sufficient.

I'm sensing that there could be a market for novelty chew toys that look like a hand holding ATF identification.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I'm sensing that there could be a market for novelty chew toys that look like a hand holding ATF identification.

Great idea! How about a fake double barrel shotgun barrels that pop through a hole in the wall when they come to the door/ring the doorbell? Maybe made of rubber or something. I would love to see their response. I suppose a fake hand with middle finger would work too.

 

[wired]

Great idea! How about a fake double barrel shotgun barrels that pop through a hole in the wall when they come to the door/ring the doorbell? Maybe made of rubber or something. I would love to see their response. I suppose a fake hand with middle finger would work too.

Theyd just shoot.

 

[223to45]

Conclusion
"No Trespassing" signs by themselves do not make it illegal for police to approach your residence and attempt to speak to you.
************

Duh. Should have known that. If it were that easy everyone would do it.

 

[wired]

Duh. Should have known that. If it were that easy everyone would do it.

They can attempt all they want.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

ATF insider (from an atf agent) info from John Crump via iraqveteran8888 video 5 days ago:

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

so what if someone bought a RBT before the july 2021 cease and desist letter? before that, buyers had every reason to believe these triggers were legal and to buy them in good faith. i can see buyers before july 2021 being protected by ex post facto or an attorney arguing that the consumer was misled by the MFG.

 

[Yarome]

so what if someone bought a RBT before the july 2021 cease and desist letter? before that, buyers had every reason to believe these triggers were legal and to buy them in good faith. i can see buyers before july 2021 being protected by ex post facto or an attorney arguing that the consumer was misled by the MFG.

I'm no lawyer, but I doubt it makes any difference since the FRT is now redefined as a MG component and no grandfather clause exists. From what I understand, all FRT's being confiscated where ALL legally purchased... at the time... and ALL are subject to confiscation attempts regardless of purchase date or where you purchased it from.