National ATF is going after FRT

[Yarome]

It looks like Gaylords attempt to appeal the reset trigger injunction fell flat.

The 5th court ruled the defendants failed to make their case... pretty much in every aspect and the pleas about the streets flowing red if the injunction wasn't stayed, in contrast to the irreparable harm to citizens if it was stayed, fell on deaf ears.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.380076/gov.uscourts.txnd.380076.73.0.pdf

Interestingly though... since the injunction was put in place, folks still appear to be getting letters and phone calls from the alphabet attempting to enforce the enjoined rule. Not a big shocker, but makes you wonder if there isn't an additional case to be made against them for illegal enforcement or harassment(??)

 

[wired]

To my knowledge they aren't trying to charge anyone. They can call and send letters all they want but they know they dont have a legal leg to stand on.

 

[Yarome]

To my knowledge they aren't trying to charge anyone. They can call and send letters all they want but they know they dont have a legal leg to stand on.

True. Misappropriation of tax $'s to harass and intimidate U.S. citizens engaged in a legal activity is perfectly fine... so long as no one is being illegally charged with a crime.

You're right!

 

[wired]

True. Misappropriation of tax $'s to harass and intimidate U.S. citizens engaged in a legal activity is perfectly fine... so long as no one is being illegally charged with a crime.

You're right!

They dont care. I know you live in a perfect world but the rest of us live in this one. They pretty much do what they want to intimidate the citzenry unless they get called onto the carpet for it and that aint gonna happen under this administration that they are a part of. After congressional inquiry or administrative review the next course of action is the lawsuit. Go to have standing and attorneys and real deep pockets for that and you have to show a pattern of harassment that goes beyond what the law stipulates is allowable. Getting a letter, or a ATF guy standing on your porch asking for something isn't probably going to rise to the level of something a federal judge is going to throw the book at the ATF for. No ones being charged and they aren't doing much more than saying pretty please.

Far different than the days I remember vividly where they were shooting women holding babies and burning churches down.

 

[Yarome]

They dont care. I know you live in a perfect world but the rest of us live in this one. They pretty much do what they want to intimidate the citzenry unless they get called onto the carpet for it and that aint gonna happen under this administration that they are a part of. After congressional inquiry or administrative review the next course of action is the lawsuit. Go to have standing and attorneys and real deep pockets for that and you have to show a pattern of harassment that goes beyond what the law stipulates is allowable. Getting a letter, or a ATF guy standing on your porch asking for something isn't probably going to rise to the level of something a federal judge is going to throw the book at the ATF for. No ones being charged and they aren't doing much more than saying pretty please.

Far different than the days I remember vividly where they were shooting women holding babies and burning churches down.

I always love your "everyone agrees with me and anyone who doesn't is living in fantasy" assertions to try and add validity to your personal opinions.

Congressional oversight is only ONE path. The other could be a class action lawsuit. The right of the people to file suit against the gooberment is guaranteed. Shocker!

Receiving a letter or having a LEO standing on your front door in and of itself is not illegal, however, if any person handed over or destroyed their personal property as a result of intimidation, under the color of law, they most certainly can show standing. Heck... in this day and age... you have a case simply claiming emotional distress.

Those that yielded their property... you've then got confiscation without just compensation (guaranteed under the 5A), and with no legal authority to begin with that amounts to "theft by deception". You could also have a 2A rights violation through coercion under the color of law case. Big no no.

18 U.S.C. 242

This provision makes it a crime for someone acting under color of law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.

I'm fully aware what gooberment overreach is and that it is quite commonplace these days. That is the reality of it, but that in no way negates the fact that it is still overreach, illegal, and shouldn't be simply accepted by the people as, "it is what it is"... bend over, take it, and don't forget to smile. Although, I grant that it does seem to be some peoples preference.

To each their own.

 

[wired]

I always love your "everyone agrees with me and anyone who doesn't is living in fantasy" assertions to try and add validity to your personal opinions.

Congressional oversight is only ONE path. The other could be a class action lawsuit. The right of the people to file suit against the gooberment is guaranteed. Shocker!

Receiving a letter or having a LEO standing on your front door in and of itself is not illegal, however, if any person handed over or destroyed their personal property as a result of intimidation, under the color of law, they most certainly can show standing. Heck... in this day and age... you have a case simply claiming emotional distress.

Those that yielded their property... you've then got confiscation without just compensation (guaranteed under the 5A), and with no legal authority to begin with that amounts to "theft by deception". You could also have a 2A rights violation through coercion under the color of law case. Big no no.

18 U.S.C. 242

This provision makes it a crime for someone acting under color of law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.

I'm fully aware what gooberment overreach is and that it is quite commonplace these days. That is the reality of it, but that in no way negates the fact that it is still overreach, illegal, and shouldn't be simply accepted by the people as, "it is what it is"... bend over, take it, and don't forget to smile. Although, I grant that it does seem to be some peoples preference.

To each their own.

Then the options are a lawsuit . Right there. Pay up if you feel an ATF agent asking for your trigger is something you find unbearable . I say "you" knowing full and well the likelihood YOU actually own one is nil . Some of us that actually have to deal with this stuff aren't quite as put off by it as those who keyboard quarterback.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I haven't been following this lately. What is the status of FRT now? Tried watching couple videos and way too much goop and no clear explanation. Is it permanently injoined? Temporary? Other?

This guy always says "destroy it, destroy it, destroy it" in video after video. If it's enjoined why do peopel need to destroy it?

 

[Yarome]

Then the options are a lawsuit . Right there. Pay up if you feel an ATF agent asking for your trigger is something you find unbearable . I say "you" knowing full and well the likelihood YOU actually own one is nil . Some of us that actually have to deal with this stuff aren't quite as put off by it as those who keyboard quarterback.

There ya go again with that, "I'm the majority" line. When that doesn't work... turn to demeaning others and making broad bubblegum-umptions when your opinions are challenged is kinda your "go to", hu!

As a habit, I don't talk specifics of what I do or do not own. Most especially when such items may be under legal scrutiny at the moment.

But if it helps bolster your sense of self worth.... you do you!

Carry on.

 

[Yarome]

What is the status of FRT now? Tried watching couple videos and way too much goop and no clear explanation. Is it permanently injoined? Temporary? Other?

Temporary/preliminary injunction pending the appeal. The gooberments motion to stay the injunction... pending appeal... was denied on the 16th.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.380076/gov.uscourts.txnd.380076.73.0.pdf

 

[Yarome]

This guy always says "destroy it, destroy it, destroy it" in video after video. If it's enjoined why do peopel need to destroy it?

View attachment 1766068

That's funny. If you're watching vids from when the rule was first enacted...



(Note the "1 year ago"?)... that kind of makes sense, but even back then my takeaway was always "one option is..." and subsequent video on how to do it in order to comply with the alphabets requirements. IF... that was your preferred choice.

I've never heard him encourage any particular option, but did cover in depth each of the options available and suggestions how to proceed along each path.

If all you heard was "destroy it, destroy it..." and as the legal standing of the triggers has changed dramatically since then... applying months old videos toward current standings... that seems more of a viewer issue than bad information, doesn't it(?)

 

[ilikegunspdx]

No I've seen tons of his frt videos in the past. It's always destroy it, I woudl destroy it, what you should do is destroy it etc. At least 5 videos he said that. Haven't watched his videos in a long time.

 

[wired]

No I've seen tons of his frt videos in the past. It's always destroy it, I woudl destroy it, what you should do is destroy it etc. At least 5 videos he said that. Haven't watched his videos in a long time.

I think he's just erring on the side of caution with the assumption,, at least on his side, that the ATF is correct in its ruling. He is a lawyer, he's not YOUR lawyer.

 

[Yarome]

This guy always says "destroy it, destroy it, destroy it" in video after video. If it's enjoined why do peopel need to destroy it?

No I've seen tons of his frt videos in the past. It's always destroy it, I woudl destroy it, what you should do is destroy it etc. At least 5 videos he said that. Haven't watched his videos in a long time.

I guess what I "heard" your question to be was.... "If the rule is now enjoined why do over a years olds YT videos still recommend destroying them?" (if that was your only takeaway from that series of vids)

Since the legal standing of the triggers has changed since those videos where published I think the answer is obvious. The advice from over a year ago when they were deemed "illegal" no longer applies.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I wonder if atf is still selling them. If they sell them when they are legal and also when they are illegal, that would be interesting to say the least for anyone they try to prosecute.

 

[wired]

I wonder if atf is still selling them. If they sell them when they are legal and also when they are illegal, that would be interesting to say the least for anyone they try to prosecute.

OK. I'll bite. Why do you think the ATF is/was selling them?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

OK. I'll bite. Why do you think the ATF is/was selling them?

I thought they were but maybe I'm thinking of solvent traps? Didn't they take over the website/seller after they got the customer list? Can't recall. Seems like it was eBay or gunbroker where they got the guys customer list then continued to let it run afterword. There was a big hubbub at the time and people were saying he is now working for atf after they hauled him in. Seems like that was when "reticent recall" started.

 

[wired]

I thought they were but maybe I'm thinking of solvent traps? Didn't they take over the website/seller after they got the customer list? Can't recall. Seems like it was eBay or gunbroker where they got the guys customer list then continued to let it run afterword. There was a big hubbub at the time and people were saying he is now working for atf after they hauled him in. Seems like that was when "reticent recall" started.

They got the customer list but to my knowledge they didn't continue to run it. Also to my knowledge no one has been charged with anything in the FRT world. Not the manufacture ( spikes ) , distributors or end users. If they really considered them to be machineguns that would be a different story.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

They got the customer list but to my knowledge they didn't continue to run it. Also to my knowledge no one has been charged with anything in the FRT world. Not the manufacture ( spikes ) , distributors or end users. If they really considered them to be machineguns that would be a different story.

A quick look at YouTube shows I may have listened to that wa gun law guy who said rifleremedy2000 was an agent of the atf. I do recall that was also being said in other places too fwiw. In this video he says he was wrong about that.

Screenshot

 

[Redhotfill]

What people need are more unfortunate "boating accidents."

 

[DennisS]

People keep trying to push the line on stuff like this then act like they do not understand when they poke the bear and the bear bites

Bear has no right to bite. That's the problem, quit giving them power.