HighLine Firearms
Southwest Firearms
Gun Deals
Sporting Systems
Buster Beaver Cerakote
Low Price Guns
Simply Triggers
Oregon Rifleworks
J&B Firearm Sales
Defensive Arts
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
lets say rarebreeds trigger becomes illegal. does anyone know if theres any legal trouble people will get in to for buying a once legal product or can we speculate it’ll end up like bumpstocks “turn them in or destroy them”


anyone think the ATF will start showin up to peoples houses?

?
 

Ura-Ki

Messages
17,240
Reactions
67,763
lets say rarebreeds trigger becomes illegal. does anyone know if theres any legal trouble people will get in to for buying a once legal product or can we speculate it’ll end up like bumpstocks “turn them in or destroy them”


anyone think the ATF will start showin up to peoples houses?

?
I think it wont be anything like the bump stocks, once the FTA gets their "List" of owners who purchased one, you get a nasty-gram telling you you have until such a date to turn them in, or else! This will be the difference, you don't turn one in, they lock down your finances and send you another letter telling you you you will be paying a penalty every day until you turn it in, and if you sold it, you have to tell them who you sold it to or else!
 

Will_White

Messages
1,106
Reactions
2,003
I think it wont be anything like the bump stocks, once the FTA gets their "List" of owners who purchased one, you get a nasty-gram telling you you have until such a date to turn them in, or else! This will be the difference, you don't turn one in, they lock down your finances and send you another letter telling you you you will be paying a penalty every day until you turn it in, and if you sold it, you have to tell them who you sold it to or else!
So everybody sells them to "someone they met on the internet" that paid cash.
 
Messages
13,591
Reactions
29,995
lets say rarebreeds trigger becomes illegal. does anyone know if theres any legal trouble people will get in to for buying a once legal product or can we speculate it’ll end up like bumpstocks “turn them in or destroy them”


anyone think the ATF will start showin up to peoples houses?

?
Once legal is a stretch. You do have a level of protection via consumer laws, but ultimately they will equate it to you bought a machine gun as in their eyes it was never legal and should have never been sold to you. Now you are in possession of an illegal firearm. Which you are not allowed to do. So they will do their best to collect them I imagine. Not sure if anyone will get prosecuted, but we can’t foresee the future.

This is all in due time depending on whether or not Rare Breed is allowed to go any further in court. They are technically battling for its legality. After that, the ATF will most likely move forward and get customer information. From there???
 

ilikegunspdx

Messages
3,858
Reactions
6,501
I think it wont be anything like the bump stocks, once the FTA gets their "List" of owners who purchased one, you get a nasty-gram telling you you have until such a date to turn them in, or else! This will be the difference, you don't turn one in, they lock down your finances and send you another letter telling you you you will be paying a penalty every day until you turn it in, and if you sold it, you have to tell them who you sold it to or else!
Fwiw I don't recall hearing that people who purchased bump stocks got a nasty gram or had their finances frozen but maybe I just never heard about it? I think we would have heard if this happened? As I recall there was just general notice to the public that poeple had to turn in bumpstocks or destroy them. In other words they made it illegal to posses them. And possession is the key IMO not whether a person once owned a bump stock. That's how I see it anyway.

Has there ever been cases where consumer finances were frozen? Maybe if there was some rogue dealer selling full auto machine guns or something I could see that for that particular dealer (guessing).
 
Last Edited:
Messages
6,771
Reactions
11,080
Fwiw I don't recall hearing that people who purchased bump stocks got a nasty gram or had their finances frozen but maybe I just never heard about it? I think we would have heard if this happened?
None of that ever happened. The ATF doesnt freeze your finances or levy fines. They may go by a customer list and stop by for a "health and welfare" check but if you dont have it and they cant prove you do there isnt anything to charge you with. Bumpstocks were never aggressively prosecuted because the ATF was using their prosecutorial discretion. They knew they werent really illegal and didnt want to push it. The FRT-15 trigger may be treated more like DIAS's or Glock sears when they will prosecute you for getting caught with one but if they dont catch you red handed there is really nothing they can do.
 

ilikegunspdx

Messages
3,858
Reactions
6,501
None of that ever happened. The ATF doesnt freeze your finances or levy fines. They may go by a customer list and stop by for a "health and welfare" check but if you dont have it and they cant prove you do there isnt anything to charge you with. Bumpstocks were never aggressively prosecuted because the ATF was using their prosecutorial discretion. They knew they werent really illegal and didnt want to push it. The FRT-15 trigger may be treated more like DIAS's or Glock sears when they will prosecute you for getting caught with one but if they dont catch you red handed there is really nothing they can do.
That makes sense to me. Solvent trap suppressors would be similar I think if poeple didn't pay for a stamp and do a form 1 they would be in possession of an illegal nfa item.
 

Ura-Ki

Messages
17,240
Reactions
67,763
Fwiw I don't recall hearing that people who purchased bump stocks got a nasty gram or had their finances frozen but maybe I just never heard about it? I think we would have heard if this happened? As I recall there was just general notice to the public that poeple had to turn in bumpstocks or destroy them. In other words they made it illegal to posses them. And possession is the key IMO not whether a person once owned a bump stock. That's how I see it anyway.

Has there ever been cases where consumer finances were frozen? Maybe if there was some rogue dealer selling full auto machine guns or something I could see that for that particular dealer (guessing).
I didn't say they have done it before, but I am quite sure that's what they will do now under the Biden admin!
 
Messages
6,771
Reactions
11,080
When BATFE reclassified a few shotguns as Destructive Devices, they did send out nasty-grams to FFLs and known owners (about 8,200 of them). The options were register the item tax free, turn them in, or be subject to forfeiture and time in Federal PMITA prison when the registration window closed. With this gizmo, the machine-gun registry is closed, so only the latter two would be an option.
Proving you have one is the issue. If they catch you with one . That's a thing. Saying you have one is another thing.
 

ilikegunspdx

Messages
3,858
Reactions
6,501
When BATFE reclassified a few shotguns as Destructive Devices, they did send out nasty-grams to FFLs and known owners (about 8,200 of them). The options were register the item tax free, turn them in, or be subject to forfeiture and time in Federal PMITA prison when the registration window closed. With this gizmo, the machine-gun registry is closed, so only the latter two would be an option.
Good info. That makes me wonder what the owners did. Those were firearms which have a serial number and in most states are "registered" to a person, so it's different from a trigger (no serial number, no registration requirement) in that way.

Note that when I say "registered", I only mean there is a paper trail from a third party such as an ffl that is required to keep records, or a background check which has a serial number in gov records.

If we knew 8200 notices went out and how many were turned in or registered, that would be good info. In particular this info might be helpful in terms of any future assault weapons ban (which are serialized and often "registered" guns). I guess one variable here would be how many were sold by owners in states where person to person gun sales are allowed without an ffl or background check. There would be an end to the record of the gun if it were sold in such a state. I think Oregon would fit this prior to 2014 or whenever it was that background checks became required.

Back to tracking triggers or other unserialized firearm parts, it seems to me it would be a Herculean and impossible task to track them down as they may have changed owners many times without any record of the transactions. Possession again seems to be the key. If they catch u with one, there is no doubt you have an illegal item. It seems to me too big/impossible of a task to try to track down each trigger or part from person to person.
 
Last Edited:

Ura-Ki

Messages
17,240
Reactions
67,763
Good info. That makes me wonder what the owners did. Those were firearms which have a serial number and in most states are "registered" to a person, so it's different from a trigger (no serial number, no registration requirement) in that way.

Note that when I say "registered", I only mean there is a paper trail from a third party such as an ffl that is required to keep records, or a background check which has a serial number in gov records.

If we knew 8200 notices went out and how many were turned in or registered, that would be good info. In particular this info might be helpful in terms of any future assault weapons ban (which are serialized and often "registered" guns). I guess one variable here would be how many were sold by owners in states where person to person gun sales are allowed without an ffl or background check. There would be an end to the record of the gun if it were sold in such a state. I think Oregon would fit this prior to 2014 or whenever it was that background checks became required.

Back to tracking triggers or other unserialized firearm parts, it seems to me it would be a Herculean and impossible task to track them down as they may have changed owners many times without any record of the transactions. Possession again seems to be the key. If they catch u with one, there is no doubt you have an illegal item. It seems to me too big/impossible of a task to try to track down each trigger or part from person to person.
This goes back to what I posted earlier, IF they get a "List" of buyers from the company, they have a defacto "registry" to use to go after folks, so even though it is legal to purchase something with out registration as it's NOT a FIREARM, they will do it anyway!
 

ilikegunspdx

Messages
3,858
Reactions
6,501
This goes back to what I posted earlier, IF they get a "List" of buyers from the company, they have a defacto "registry" to use to go after folks, so even though it is legal to purchase something with out registration as it's NOT a FIREARM, they will do it anyway!
I agree they may try to do it. Reading the initial cease and desist letter to RB, I get the impression they want RB to do it for them.

But in reality if they had a list of 10k-50k first owners, they would have to serve a search warrant for each first owner and find it. I don't see that happening personally although they may find a few that way as examples, sort of like the fbi warning at the start of a movie regarding making copies of the movie.

I see it more likely that they require RB to notify first owners that atf says they have to turn in or destroy. Actual prosecutions would probably only come from big resellers after the notice was given, or possibly from those caught using it as wired said above. Just my thoughts and I don't have a crystal ball ha ha. And this all assumes ATF is able to say it is a machine gun via the definition of one function of the trigger.
 
Messages
6,771
Reactions
11,080
Machine guns , even HK sears and DIAS are considered firearms. The fact you bought it OTC doesn't change the fact that if the FRT is ruled a MG it will be a firearm legally.
 
Messages
8,171
Reactions
16,495
And this all assumes ATF is able to say it is a machine gun via the definition of one function of the trigger.
Indeed. Is the full cycle the result of a single function of the trigger , or is the fact that it resets each time a shot is fired, the single function?

It all depends on the lawyers in black robes and the lawyers for ATF and RB.

At the very least; someone in Congress did propose a bill to abolish the ATF and repeal the NFA.. but on the flip side there is that potential bill to add practically all semiauto rifles (capable of accepting detatchable magazines) to the NFA classes.
 
Let Freedom Ring
Sporting Systems
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Southwest Firearms
Copeland Custom Gunworks
Cerberus Training Group

Upcoming Events

Jefferson State Shooting Association Gun Show
Klamath Falls, OR
Wes Knodel Gun Shows
Redmond, OR
Rickreall Winter Gun Show
Rickreall, OR

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Top