ATF and backroom dealings.

[The B]

They've been fighting for you money. Don't know if they care too much about rights.

 

[Just Jim]

I do not think that word (Liberal) means what you think it means.

You are the one who has drawn lines and then expects people to get on the side of the line where you believe they belong. You have a definition of Liberal that seems to mean anybody who disagrees with you. Conversely, I suppose a Conservative is someone who does agree with you. Sorry, your definitions and your lines don't make any sense to a lot of people.

For instance, I'm neither a Liberal nor a Conservative. I'm not quite a Libertarian either. I'm certainly not a Communist or a fascist. But I will tell you what I do believe.

I believe in the Bill of Rights, rabidly and completely. All of them, from free speech to self-incrimination. I believe in the rule of law, but I also believe in a higher law, love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. Whenever you find yourself using the rule of law to assuage your guilty conscience it's a pretty safe bet that you should ignore the letter of the law and do what's fair and right.

I have been against the Conservative Richard Nixon. I've been against the Liberal Jimmy Carter. I hated the predatory economics of Reagan. And I hate the despotism of Obama. I hated the stupidity of Bush Jr. I loved the idealism of Kennedy, and the common sense of Eisenhower.

I'm pro-gun, pro-free speech, anti-government overreaching, pro-religious freedom, and a fierce advocate of independent thought. I think Social Security is a very good idea that is poorly administered. I am against our military adventures that serve no purpose but to make defense contractors rich. I am 100% for taking care of every veteran in every possible way.

So, since you're the expert on what everybody is or ought to be, you tell me what I am. I suspect you'll push me over in the other camp (interesting that there's always only one), across your imaginary line, along with everybody else who challenges anything you've thought in the last 30 years.

And BTW, I'll mention God if I feel like it. Free speech and freedom of religion and all that, you know?

And also BTW, note that I have a few posts and more than a few likes, along with 100% positive feedback.

Well thank you very much for sharing the way you think. I guess from my post you find me judgmental as to what others think, I am not. I am judgmental as to what others do when it affects my rights. You draw your own lines and you told me what you think and stand for by the examples you gave. I ask you this about those examples, are liberals or conservatives the same today as fifty years ago?

My politely asking Ben about his liberal views was an effort to see how things have changed in my lifetime. He danced around what he thinks and didn't want to be specific. You tend to be straight forward on your opinions but your post seems to be openly hostile. Seems you worked yourself up pretty good to reply. When you think you can carry on a civil conversation let me know, I like people normally.

 

[Just Jim]

That's a non-answer if I've ever heard one.
And ARE they really fighting for my rights? Seems like in all the major instances, they've compromised away a few. In the past 20yrs, what major fight have they won? It's not an argument point, I'd like to actually know.

You have had a short time around firearms but hate the NRA that has fought for firearms rights since 1871. I am not going to waste time with you, you can look up information yourself then go find someone else to troll on the subject.

 

[SCARed]

Don't believe I ever said I hated the NRA. From what I've seen just in this thread, that's what you seem to assume about anyone who questions the actions of the NRA. You had an opportunity to educate someone, and turn around my apparently false assumptions on the merits of a group the has "fought for firearms rights since 1871". Unfortunately you are unable to even try.
I am the one that is done with you on this subject. Maybe someone else can enlighten me.

 

[Just Jim]

Don't believe I ever said I hated the NRA. From what I've seen just in this thread, that's what you seem to assume about anyone who questions the actions of the NRA. You had an opportunity to educate someone, and turn around my apparently false assumptions on the merits of a group the has "fought for firearms rights since 1871". Unfortunately you are unable to even try.
I am the one that is done with you on this subject. Maybe someone else can enlighten me.

Been through too many wasted discussions that people asked me to prove something. I won't waste my time on research you can do for yourself nor will I argue with people. Your tone that what has the NRA done for you lately could be answered by a simple question, what have you ever done to protect your gun rights?

Now I have had enough so talk to someone else.

 

[RB87]

I'm so totally shocked that this could happen.

 

[Who The F R U]

Hasn't the NRA been behind every major piece of legislation that has taken away our rights as gun owners?

YEP:
1934,1968,1986,1994,2002,2014,2015........ It just keep's getting worse.

They bend us over backwards to fu(k us, then they ask us to pay for the lube.

 

[U201491]

First clue to a person that would sell out your rights in a heartbeat is their intent to tear down the NRA.
Contrary to what they will fight and yell and tantrum and tell us they are no friend of the 2nd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is right out of the Bloomberg playbook and his top agenda besides taking away your rights.
Sleepers...............................
If the shoe fits................................

 

[Who The F R U]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

An organization that is willing to make ANY deal that concede's our right's and help's turn them into a privilege can go pee up a wall.

Sorry if you don't like it but it's what the NRA is and has done.

 

[Just Jim]

First clue to a person that would sell out your rights in a heartbeat is their intent to tear down the NRA.
Contrary to what they will fight and yell and tantrum and tell us they are no friend of the 2nd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is right out of the Bloomberg playbook and his top agenda besides taking away your rights.
Sleepers...............................
If the shoe fits................................

Second clue is they are a new member to the community with very little history.

 

[U201491]

Second clue is they are a new member to the community with very little history.

Some are and some are sleepers that have hidden out here for a long time.

 

[Just Jim]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

An organization that is willing to make ANY deal that concede's our right's and help's turn them into a privilege can go pee up a wall.

Sorry if you don't like it but it's what the NRA is and has done.

Maybe you should give up guns and take up a money maker..

http://www.wilton.com/cakes/making-cakes/baking-serving-guide.cfm

 

[Just Jim]

Some are and some are sleepers that have hidden out here for a long time.

Yup I see em.

 

[Who The F R U]

Maybe you should give up guns and take up a money maker..

http://www.wilton.com/cakes/making-cakes/baking-serving-guide.cfm

We have been manufacturing gun's for a living for the past 14 years....
I still don't like the NRA.

You should check out----- http://www.nationalgunrights.org/

 

[Riot]

We have been manufacturing gun's for a living for the past 14 years....
I still don't like the NRA.

You should check out----- http://www.nationalgunrights.org/

FYI, being a member of NAGR is why the NRA won't endorse Rand Paul...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ed-by-nra-over-national-association/?page=all

So...whoo-hooo to the NRA...

 

[Who The F R U]

No Compromise VS Compromised.

See what kind of bowing the NRA doe's in -16

There is going to bee a $heet storm when this cow is in office.

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

I see the Bloomturd "divide and conquer" is working well on this website!

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
NRA Golden Eagle member
NRA Recruiter
Defender of Freedom Award
Washington Arms Collector Member
Vancouver Rifle & Pistol Club member
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Well thank you very much for sharing the way you think. I guess from my post you find me judgmental as to what others think, I am not. I am judgmental as to what others do when it affects my rights. You draw your own lines and you told me what you think and stand for by the examples you gave. I ask you this about those examples, are liberals or conservatives the same today as fifty years ago?

My politely asking Ben about his liberal views was an effort to see how things have changed in my lifetime. He danced around what he thinks and didn't want to be specific. You tend to be straight forward on your opinions but your post seems to be openly hostile. Seems you worked yourself up pretty good to reply. When you think you can carry on a civil conversation let me know, I like people normally.

You're pretty good at telling people what they think, and how they feel. It might surprise you to know that I'm not at all angry. I'd have to give a bubblegum about your opinions in order to be angry. I'm just pointing out that you're an extremely good example of why we are losing our gun rights. Unless someone agrees with every jot and tittle of whatever you've decided is The Truth (tm) they are on the other side. And you wonder why you seem to have enemies on every side, and no cooperation from anyone? You've manufactured those "enemies" and you've shunned their help because they aren't pure enough. Successful politics is the art of compromise and getting along with potential allies. But right now you're thinking, "Ooo, he said 'compromise', and that something we can't tolerate." Well, you're right with respect to our Constitutional rights. No compromise there. But cutting yourself off from allies and assistance because they see things slightly different than you do is counterproductive. It's what has gotten us where we are now, which is on the brink of losing the 2nd Amendment. It's time to man up. There aren't enough Republican votes left in the Oregon legislature to stop anything the Democrats want to do. Logic dictates that we'd better make friends with some gun loving Democrats if we want to save our gun rights.

 

[Riot]

I see the Bloomturd "divide and conquer" is working well on this website!

Let me guess, it's blasphemy to speak ill will of the NRA...ever. They're the best gun-rights organization and if we didn't have the NRA then Bush wouldn't have let the AWB expire, we'd all be shooting bolt-action rifles and shotguns along with fighting the constant battle in keeping them.

The NAGR, SAF, OFF, CCRKBA, JPFO, GOA, PP, SAS, they all are just crap when compared to the NRA...right?

 

[Riot]

FYI, the ATF did reply to my email...will update if they actually answer my questions.

Good afternoon Mr. *Riot*,
This email is in response to your questions regarding handgun and rifle ammunition.

I have forwarded you email to the Firearms Technology Branch. They will be able to answer your questions much more accurately than I can.

Regards,

David L. Howell
Firearms Industry Programs Branch