ATF and backroom dealings.

[Just Jim]

I'm a well established member and have been no fan of the NRA for most of a decade. I cancelled my membership in '06 or so, when I discovered they'd been behind the FOPA and half a dozen other completely BS pieces of legislation. Screw those guys.

Did you drop your membership to the democrat party too?

 

[The B]

Did you drop your membership to the democrat party too?

No. I've never had one.

 

[Just Jim]

No. I've never had one.

Funny Ben, you call yourself a liberal so are you a liberal?

 

[The B]

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking... but the Democrat party doesn't represent liberalism. Is the Republican party synonymous with conservatism? The Democrat party does not represent me any more than the Republican party represents Libertarians, Constitutionalists, right-wing Anarchists, etc.

 

[Just Jim]

Well Ben I just wonder how you liberals think. You say you are a liberal and it's the liberals going after our gun rights via the democrat party. Plus you say you are against the NRA because they sided with liberal gun policies. Not sure I understand where you stand as a self confessed liberal. See it is inconsistent what you say so maybe you can clarifie it all.

 

[The B]

You're mistaken. It's anti-gunners going after guns. There's a big difference between "anti-gunners" and "liberals," as I, and the many, many liberal gun owners out there are proof positive of. This is the problem with line-drawing and generalizing... people draw imaginary ideological lines, put anything they don't agree with on the other side of them, and then generalize everyone on that side as being the same. Big error, that is.

 

[Just Jim]

You're mistaken. It's anti-gunners going after guns. There's a big difference between "anti-gunners" and "liberals," as I, and the many, many liberal gun owners out there are proof positive of. This is the problem with line-drawing and generalizing... people draw imaginary ideological lines, put anything they don't agree with on the other side of them, and then generalize everyone on that side as being the same. Big error, that is.

Then you have never voted for a democrat that's anti gun? You don't draw lines so how do you measure where they stand?

 

[The B]

Then you have never voted for a democrat that's anti gun? You don't draw lines so how do you measure where they stand?

I don't think I've ever voted for a Democrat.

 

[Just Jim]

I don't think I've ever voted for a Democrat.

Do you even vote? If so where do you draw the lines?

Nice dance you are doing here but the music just stopped.

 

[The B]

It's been a long time since I've voted for a political seat. 2006? I used to believe in compromising- voting for "the lesser of two evils." I would vote for a Republican if a particularly anti-gun Democrat was running. It's an important issue for me, and in our area you can get away with that... Republicans, rare as they are, can do little social damage in our state.

But I don't compromise anymore. I also barely care, anymore. I guess I am a fatalist... Jesus has been given all authority. I'll vote when He is running. Till then, you can have it.

 

[The B]

But I'll still engage in friendly, intelligent ideological debate.

 

[Just Jim]

It's been a long time since I've voted for a political seat. 2006? I used to believe in compromising- voting for "the lesser of two evils." I would vote for a Republican if a particularly anti-gun Democrat was running. It's an important issue for me, and in our area you can get away with that... Republicans, rare as they are, can do little social damage in our state.

But I don't compromise anymore. I also barely care, anymore. I guess I am a fatalist... Jesus has been given all authority. I'll vote when He is running. Till then, you can have it.

Still you lack explanation in where you draw the line. How does Jesus tell you to vote on the issues, is he conservative or liberal? Does Jesus draw lines? How would he be on gun control? I don't want to talk religion, just voting and how liberals think so if you think I am insulting your religion I am not. Just curiously wondering how you draw your lines. What social issue is more important to a liberal such as yourself than your gun rights?

Odd too that you dump the NRA who has a history of fighting for your gun rights but side with liberals who want to take them away. Maybe if you would have voted in the last nine years you wouldn't have to worry if your rights will still exist in the next nine years.

 

[The B]

Still you lack explanation in where you draw the line. How does Jesus tell you to vote on the issues, is he conservative or liberal? Does Jesus draw lines? How would he be on gun control? I don't want to talk religion, just voting and how liberals think so if you think I am insulting your religion I am not. Just curiously wondering how you draw your lines. What social issue is more important to a liberal such as yourself than your gun rights?

Odd too that you dump the NRA who has a history of fighting for your gun rights but side with liberals who want to take them away. Maybe if you would have voted in the last nine years you wouldn't have to worry if your rights will still exist in the next nine years.

I did explain where I draw the line - I won't compromise on gun rights or any civil liberty. No major party has run a candidate that wouldn't require me to compromise, possibly ever, so I haven't voted.

Unfortunately, a lot of liberals DO compromise and vote for anti-gun Democrats, because they believe social issues are of most importance right now. Most people don't care about guns, and that includes most Liberals. I do. Line drawn, right there.

I can't speak for Jesus, but I'd say He doesn't take opinions on the petty anxieties of earthly politics. Gun rights? Completely irrelevant. Gay marriage? Completely irrelevant. Taxes? Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. War? What must be, must be. He doesn't care about the world, He cares about men's hearts.

 

[Just Jim]

The quickest way to thread shutdown is anything about religion. Please refrain from any post that might offend those that are offended by such talk. While I myself am not offended the rules are plain and must be obeyed.

That being said I find your view interesting but very troubling. People won't take the time to vote even when the ballot is mailed to your doorstep. Today the state of Oregon is voting against our gun rights and those who say they support those rights let us down by not voting. A man's heart does best when he is safe and free to make his decision as to the path he follows. It seems odd that people give up their vote on keeping the ability to do both. However someone did die so you can be free to make your choices and you will figure out in the end if the choices were right... by drawing a line to measure from.

 

[1Asterisk]

It's kinda like family, you know your brother isn't always honest but you don't need an outsider stirring the pot. Yes a lot of the leadership of the NRA are liberals and come from the east coast so yes in some cases they must be playing along with the politicians. Join the NRA and vote them out rather than stab the whole membership in the back.

Is this the brother that keeps asking to borrow money from you but never pays you back?

Just trying to build a little background here.....

 

[Just Jim]

Is this the brother that keeps asking to borrow money from you but never pays you back?

Just trying to build a little background here.....

Pardon me for not trusting new members. It's difficult to trust someone when they have no background of support for the community. Few post, posting from a liberal town and no feedback brings out suspicions if there are anti NRA comments in the thread.

 

[SCARed]

I think some of the posters are plants to stir up hate and discontent with lies about the NRA.

Edited to add, guys come in here with damn few post and no feedback yet they want to talk crap about the NRA. Build a little background first if you want to be taken seriously.

If your quote was about my question "Hasn't the NRA been behind every major piece of legislation that has taken away our rights as gun owners?", the question mark on the end makes it a question, not a statement as you seem to have taken it. Didn't know that asking questions was "stirring the pot".

For the record, I am NOT a member of the NRA. Since my short time around firearms, I haven't seen them do much at all to get my support. OFF on the other hand has done a ton. Not that I've been keeping score, but it seems like every major court victory has be because of OFF, GOA, or other groups.
Back in the day, yes the NRA was a good group who's primary goal was to teach safety and responsibility towards firearms, and got involved in politics when needed. Now though, they are just a super PAC. Teaching people about firearms is a distant 2nd.

 

[Just Jim]

If your quote was about my question "Hasn't the NRA been behind every major piece of legislation that has taken away our rights as gun owners?", the question mark on the end makes it a question, not a statement as you seem to have taken it. Didn't know that asking questions was "stirring the pot".

For the record, I am NOT a member of the NRA. Since my short time around firearms, I haven't seen them do much at all to get my support. OFF on the other hand has done a ton. Not that I've been keeping score, but it seems like every major court victory has be because of OFF, GOA, or other groups.
Back in the day, yes the NRA was a good group who's primary goal was to teach safety and responsibility towards firearms, and got involved in politics when needed. Now though, they are just a super PAC. Teaching people about firearms is a distant 2nd.

They have been fighting for your rights since 1871, what have you done to keep your rights?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Well Ben I just wonder how you liberals think. You say you are a liberal and it's the liberals going after our gun rights via the democrat party. Plus you say you are against the NRA because they sided with liberal gun policies. Not sure I understand where you stand as a self confessed liberal. See it is inconsistent what you say so maybe you can clarifie it all.

I do not think that word (Liberal) means what you think it means.

You are the one who has drawn lines and then expects people to get on the side of the line where you believe they belong. You have a definition of Liberal that seems to mean anybody who disagrees with you. Conversely, I suppose a Conservative is someone who does agree with you. Sorry, your definitions and your lines don't make any sense to a lot of people.

For instance, I'm neither a Liberal nor a Conservative. I'm not quite a Libertarian either. I'm certainly not a Communist or a fascist. But I will tell you what I do believe.

I believe in the Bill of Rights, rabidly and completely. All of them, from free speech to self-incrimination. I believe in the rule of law, but I also believe in a higher law, love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. Whenever you find yourself using the rule of law to assuage your guilty conscience it's a pretty safe bet that you should ignore the letter of the law and do what's fair and right.

I have been against the Conservative Richard Nixon. I've been against the Liberal Jimmy Carter. I hated the predatory economics of Reagan. And I hate the despotism of Obama. I hated the stupidity of Bush Jr. I loved the idealism of Kennedy, and the common sense of Eisenhower.

I'm pro-gun, pro-free speech, anti-government overreaching, pro-religious freedom, and a fierce advocate of independent thought. I think Social Security is a very good idea that is poorly administered. I am against our military adventures that serve no purpose but to make defense contractors rich. I am 100% for taking care of every veteran in every possible way.

So, since you're the expert on what everybody is or ought to be, you tell me what I am. I suspect you'll push me over in the other camp (interesting that there's always only one), across your imaginary line, along with everybody else who challenges anything you've thought in the last 30 years.

And BTW, I'll mention God if I feel like it. Free speech and freedom of religion and all that, you know?

And also BTW, note that I have a few posts and more than a few likes, along with 100% positive feedback.

 

[SCARed]

They have been fighting for your rights since 1871, what have you done to keep your rights?

That's a non-answer if I've ever heard one.
And ARE they really fighting for my rights? Seems like in all the major instances, they've compromised away a few. In the past 20yrs, what major fight have they won? It's not an argument point, I'd like to actually know.