ARPC surveillance cameras.

[PiratePast40]

These were actual events that happened. As witnessed by multiple people. I never once came to that range with any attitude, in fact I said little if anything even as the RSOs crossed the line multiple times and ramped up even as we tried to deescalate. For crap sake we are on a range with live firearms, that's not the place to roid out no matter who is at fault. And that's the thing about bullies, they don't need a reason to be a-holes. A little bit of power plus a lot of insecurity is all the rage fuel they need to pick on people they deem inferior. They also like to blame their victims as though they had it coming.

People can believe what the want. People can be offended if they want. I'm sure I'm not popular for sharing my experiences. I wish the club well. I'm done talking about this.

I've been an ARPC member for over 10 years and am shocked you were treated the way you were. If that had happened to me, I would also be pretty pi$$ed off at being treated with such disrespect. I hope by now, club management is aware of the events and are looking into it.

I have not had that kind of experience at the club and don't think this is typical. I certainly hope they get to the bottom of this so that others don't have the same bad experience.

 

[Rkangel]

@Rkangel can I ask your age?

Old enough.

 

[dondoo1315]

The only thing I thought was weird about it was they ran Blue cat 6 riser cable through underground conduits, so my guess is the work wasn't done by a licensed professional and the job probably wasn't permitted. Also they are going to inevitably have to replace all the cabling in a year or two when their cameras start dropping offline because the cable deterioratesbecause they went the cheaper route. Just my 2 cents as a LEA

 

[spookshack]

No need to flex like that grasshopper.

 

[dondoo1315]

No need to flex like that grasshopper.

It's not a flex sensei I'm just trying to figure out why they ran indoor cable in an underground wet location. They are just asking to have to replace it in a year or two. Sometime cheaper isn't better

 

[LAG]

call it signs of the times. I am sure they were not installed to spy on anyone but more than likely due to insurance pressure, government regulations and general liability. You know those inconvenient links that make up the chain that bind us while they tell us were free.

 

[lazyeye]

I've been a member there two years. Its a sign of the times alright. The indoor range in Lebanon obviously has cameras. Izaak Walton outside Eugene has cameras. There's so much GD liability these days I'm grateful that we still have the private bays at ARPC. I don't particularly care for the thought of abuse of that data. For that matter "training" often looks like "violating the rules" to some eyes and arguing with the refs never gets anyone anywhere.

 

[KuduKing]

Have been a LE firearms instructor/RSO (there's no distinction between the two in LE) for over 35 years, rangemaster for over 25 years, and was head of firearms training for my agency for the last 3 years of my career. I'm now retired, but have 50+ years of competitive - local, regional, national and international - and other shooting experience at private and public ranges, in addition to my LE experience. Rifle, pistol, shotgun sports.

Being an RSO is not for everyone. It's a difficult job, and nearly every day you deal with untrained/improperly trained/distracted people who could cause damage, injuries or death. The result for many RSOs - I'm going to say most unfortunately - is a descent into "range nazism" and Angry RSO Syndrome.

Added to that, is the fact that in my observations, many RSOs are simply not the right temperament for the job. When you are dealing with paying customers and guests, you can't treat them like recruits at boot camp. Yes, the fundamental rules of firearms safety are absolute, but they manner in which they are enforced matters greatly.

In my LE career as rangemaster, I launched more than one instructor who repeatedly exhibited unprofessional behavior. Three strikes and he was out. It was done professionally, privately and with due consideration, but I would not tolerate toxic people around firearms.

Now retired and teaching firearms privately, I meet the typical new shooter who views firearms as just another consumer product, and is clueless about safety. The objective is to educate and internalize safety in a welcoming environment. Such an approach is much more effective in my experience that verbally berating or violating personal space. Some of the experiences noted by other posters are sadly not atypical.

 

[Mikej]

Have been a LE firearms instructor/RSO (there's no distinction between the two in LE) for over 35 years, rangemaster for over 25 years, and was head of firearms training for my agency for the last 3 years of my career. I'm now retired, but have 50+ years of competitive - local, regional, national and international - and other shooting experience at private and public ranges, in addition to my LE experience. Rifle, pistol, shotgun sports.

Being an RSO is not for everyone. It's a difficult job, and nearly every day you deal with untrained/improperly trained/distracted people who could cause damage, injuries or death. The result for many RSOs - I'm going to say most unfortunately - is a descent into "range nazism" and Angry RSO Syndrome.

Added to that, is the fact that in my observations, many RSOs are simply not the right temperament for the job. When you are dealing with paying customers and guests, you can't treat them like recruits at boot camp. Yes, the fundamental rules of firearms safety are absolute, but they manner in which they are enforced matters greatly.

In my LE career as rangemaster, I launched more than one instructor who repeatedly exhibited unprofessional behavior. Three strikes and he was out. It was done professionally, privately and with due consideration, but I would not tolerate toxic people around firearms.

Now retired and teaching firearms privately, I meet the typical new shooter who views firearms as just another consumer product, and is clueless about safety. The objective is to educate and internalize safety in a welcoming environment. Such an approach is much more effective in my experience that verbally berating or violating personal space. Some of the experiences noted by other posters are sadly not atypical.

Wow! What great read. I've had it in my mind that I would not want to be at a range with RSO's because of what you are describing. I've heard some stories about Doulas Ridge. I know the rules, and feel that I obey them religiously. I obey them to the letter while I put and take guns out of the safe when I'm alone, or with someone in my home. And would insist they do the same. But I wouldn't do well with an RSO that read the riot act to me on the range if I happened to make a small mistake.

Edit: Just realized your from the other side of the country!

This place is quite the set-up out here from read and know from a few. https://douglasridge.org/

 

[sparky923]

Wow. Now this thread resonates.
A couple? of range trips back, I'd taken the wife with me. Set up in one of the Bays, start shooting. Get a visit by one RSO, and a lecture on chamber flags. Wow. Member for over a decade or more. Ok.
Visit by another RSO. Lecture about something else and how they'd do it.
Visit by both RSOs and another lecture about whatever.
All these years and here I thought I was behaving correctly, never an issue, and now I immediately suspect any RSO's motives. All my weapons will be cased even on the line, I won't be inviting them to shoot, and I'll just stand there and stare while they're in the Bay. ;(

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Wow. Now this thread resonates.
A couple? of range trips back, I'd taken the wife with me. Set up in one of the Bays, start shooting. Get a visit by one RSO, and a lecture on chamber flags. Wow. Member for over a decade or more. Ok.
Visit by another RSO. Lecture about something else and how they'd do it.
Visit by both RSOs and another lecture about whatever.
All these years and here I thought I was behaving correctly, never an issue, and now I immediately suspect any RSO's motives. All my weapons will be cased even on the line, I won't be inviting them to shoot, and I'll just stand there and stare while they're in the Bay. ;(

Wow where was this at?

 

[sparky923]

Wow where was this at?

ARPC

 

[spookshack]

Cameras work both ways. Maybe having your phone handy for recording any interactions with an RSO might be of help?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Cameras work both ways. Maybe having your phone handy for recording any interactions with an RSO might be of help?

Just a general observation based on the world around us, but I don't think that the people that set up cameras to record the "regular folks" like being recorded nearly as much as they like recording us

 

[Rkangel]

Wow. Now this thread resonates.
A couple? of range trips back, I'd taken the wife with me. Set up in one of the Bays, start shooting. Get a visit by one RSO, and a lecture on chamber flags. Wow. Member for over a decade or more. Ok.
Visit by another RSO. Lecture about something else and how they'd do it.
Visit by both RSOs and another lecture about whatever.
All these years and here I thought I was behaving correctly, never an issue, and now I immediately suspect any RSO's motives. All my weapons will be cased even on the line, I won't be inviting them to shoot, and I'll just stand there and stare while they're in the Bay. ;(

ARPC

Right there with you.
People may think our experiences are made up, or that we're over reacting. Oh, well.

The RSOs weren't there for my safety. They weren't there as a good representation for the facility. They weren't nosing around my gear and closed bags because they thought my stuff was cool. They didn't treat people with respect or good faith. They were apparently there to harass and intimidate. Which was the only thing they successfully did. That, and drive members away. Sad. While I would like to think cameras would help hold bad RSOs accountable ,too, I have my doubts and I'm not paying membership dues just to stand around and stare at unused targets downrange while getting abused by staff.