AR15 sales at Farmers Market

[teflon6string]

Maybe float a test balloon and see how the blonde kids with dreds, tribal tattoos and names like Eleanor and Brendan respond to a booth selling gunpowder scented incense and candles?

 

[Raidingtime]

You'd need an FFL and the issue is the BATFE just announced they would not longer approve non-physical store FFLs. So, unless you are going to buy a commercial property as a location for the FFL, you are SOL. Also, the BATFE is pretty clear about where FFLs can conduct business. As a Farmer's Market is not a "Gun Show" it would not be approved for "off premises" business.

However, It would be cool to see someone milling out all the parts for an AR with time lapsed video on a YouTube channel. Once a week some other custom design type thing.

Thanks for the input. I did not realize that it was against BATFE regulations to sell off premise. How is it that this website exists then? I've purchased several firearms without a store front?

Can you supply links to regulations that you quote please?

I also think the YouTube custom AR channel would be great. I, however, don't have the start up funds to supply much interest in AR builds. Most of my builds have been garage sale budget builds. However, I can make one mean AsZ AR for less than a grand .

 

[Diamondback]

There's a difference between "private collector" vs. "engaged in the business." They've never really quantitatively defined the latter that I know of...

One of the things I'd like to do if I ever find myself hired-on at a gun shop somewhere (how DO you break into the industry even just as a counter clerk, anyway?) would be to have one or two "Build Classes" a month walking people through how to build their own 1911, AR, AK or whatever flavor-of-the-month, maybe "buy your lower from/through us and the class is free." Dream shot would be to have an attached range and include test-fire session...

@Raidingtime , I just happened to see a Palmetto upper on Anderson lower for sub-$400 on Slickguns...

 

[Raidingtime]

There's a difference between "private collector" vs. "engaged in the business." They've never really quantitatively defined the latter that I know of...

One of the things I'd like to do if I ever find myself hired-on at a gun shop somewhere (how DO you break into the industry even just as a counter clerk, anyway?) would be to have one or two "Build Classes" a month walking people through how to build their own 1911, AR, AK or whatever flavor-of-the-month, maybe "buy your lower from/through us and the class is free." Dream shot would be to have an attached range and include test-fire session...

Well Diamondback from a cold, wet green Hell I believe that you have an excellent idea. Anything that will captivate an audience to listen and reason with a positive member of the firearm community is a win for all of us.

As far as breaking into the firearm industry, I have no idea how to get a job at a gun store. It seems that 7/8 of the guys working the counter don't know much about what they're selling or even how to give quality advice to customers.

Regardless, I think you should give your resume to Curts. Someone with your attitude ought to be working there.

 

[Diamondback]

I'm guessing that's a shop down your way... I'm chained down in Sodom & Gomorrah on the Sound by aging and invalid relatives who expect me to play "domestic engineer"--seriously, even in college the only way the bills got paid was me physically backing my mother into a corner and telling her "I don't care if you want to lose the house or not, but if you like the life you have you need to cut a check so I can Overnight Express it to YOUR mortgage co./power co./etc. in the morning."

Resume? LOL Having been conscripted into being the Old Crab's domestic-engineer, and with my prior career not exactly having usable references... I don't have a background to offer other than a willingness to learn (I can't even claim a lot of firearms expertise, and am the first to admit I have a lot to learn) and only asking for the same chance to learn and to prove myself as any entry level McJobber. (For some reason I've got the impression that a lot of shops work on the principle of "It's Who You Know," meaning existing social/professional ties come first.)

 

[Raidingtime]

I'm guessing that's a shop down your way... I'm chained down in Sodom & Gomorrah on the Sound by aging and invalid relatives who expect me to play "domestic engineer"--seriously, even in college the only way the bills got paid was me physically backing my mother into a corner and telling her "I don't care if you want to lose the house or not, but if you like the life you have you need to cut a check so I can Overnight Express it to YOUR mortgage co./power co./etc. in the morning."

Resume? LOL Having been conscripted into being the Old Crab's domestic-engineer, and with my prior career not exactly having usable references... I don't have a background to offer other than a willingness to learn (I can't even claim a lot of firearms expertise, and am the first to admit I have a lot to learn) and only asking for the same chance to learn and to prove myself as any entry level McJobber. (For some reason I've got the impression that a lot of shops work on the principle of "It's Who You Know," meaning existing social/professional ties come first.)

Curts is a Portland area AR shop. Keep putting your resume out. Try to network when and where possible. Much of finding a good job is who you know. Try to use that to your advantage as much as possible even if you don't agree with it. If you're not a people person try to become one... At least for business purposes.

Sorry to hear that you have so much going on. keep on keeping on.

 

[Diamondback]

Curts is a Portland area AR shop. Keep putting your resume out. Try to network when and where possible. Much of finding a good job is who you know. Try to use that to your advantage as much as possible even if you don't agree with it. If you're not a people person try to become one... At least for business purposes.

Sorry to hear that you have so much going on. keep on keeping on.

Roger that. Ya Do What Ya Gotta Do for family, right? (Especially when you're the last man alive on either side of the family tree that's on this side of the Mississippi...)

 

[DukkButt]

Oh, wouldn't that just be evil... Hand-crafted ARtisan AR's While You Watch? Starting from an 80% blank, then finishing it to customer's taste and assembling while they watch?

Something like "pay your money, pass your BGC and pick your colors and pattern, then come back in two hours or so and watch the pieces go together," I'm thinking... maybe a "Build Your Own With Expert Help" option too.

Make sure you have lots of demographically-targeted pro-2A flyers, too... like the Pink Pistol slogan about "Because armed gays don't get bashed."

BATF recently clarified their 80% build rules. Too many people "loopholing" the system with push button cnc builds. Not only can you not finish an 80% lower for someone else, as a business you can't even loan tools or equipment that you own to someone to finish their own receiver.

ATF Rul. 2015-1

 

[Diamondback]

Right... I was thinking a full 4473/etc. with 100%'s, in partnership with a local gun-shop.

And it's worse than "no loan," you can't even LEASE--which technically makes me wonder about even some of the big names, because such huge capital-expense equipment as heavy-duty CNC mills are usually financed by long-term lease arrangements that work kind of like a household mortgage. (Finance company "owns" it until payoff, leases it to operator until paid off--usually the timing, at least if they're done like locomotives, is timed for 15 years or the expected life of the Capital Asset whichever is shorter.)

 

[DukkButt]

Right... I was thinking a full 4473/etc. with 100%'s, in partnership with a local gun-shop.

And it's worse than "no loan," you can't even LEASE--which technically makes me wonder about even some of the big names, because such huge capital-expense equipment as heavy-duty CNC mills are usually financed by long-term lease arrangements that work kind of like a household mortgage. (Finance company "owns" it until payoff, leases it to operator until paid off--usually the timing, at least if they're done like locomotives, is timed for 15 years or the expected life of the Capital Asset whichever is shorter.)

The actual BATF wording is "using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment."

So it isn't ownership, it's control of access to the equipment that is key. Being leased isn't a factor.

 

[Raidingtime]

BATF recently clarified their 80% build rules. Too many people "loopholing" the system with push button cnc builds. Not only can you not finish an 80% lower for someone else, as a business you can't even loan tools or equipment that you own to someone to finish their own receiver.

ATF Rul. 2015-1

I'm aware of this. This is why I would give them resources on how to obtain or make their own lowers.

I'm not aware of any regulation that bars civilians from selling AR firearm parts besides AR lowers.

 

[DukkButt]

Yes, to be clear, these rules apply to the lower receiver only. The important point is that BATF has clarified their rules and that someone having a build party where folks come in and push the button to start a cnc machine is guilty of illegally manufacturing and distributing firearms. Big time felony. Same thing for letting people use a manual mill, even though they are operating it themselves.

Will they bust you for letting a friend use your drill press and jig? Very unlikely. It's clearly the push button cnc stuff that they really wanted to stop. However, step on the wrong toes or make yourself too publicly visible and that could be used against you. No need to be paranoid about it. Just something to be aware of so you don't make yourself an obvious target.