Any Opportunities To Use The Ukraine Invasion To Bolster Firearm Freedoms Here In The US? Share Your Ideas.

[CamoDeafie]

Wow, this is really good to learn... not just for this conversation but for the gun rights conversation where I hear so often repeated how other countries dont have the "gun violence" we do yet we have permissive gun laws.
Their gun rights system doesn't look that bad, its basically a "shall issue" system but with a more extensive background check and a proficiency exam, also a due process for removing guns if one breaks enough laws rather than just someones word.

Gun law in the Czech Republic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not only that, they actually lay out provisions for foreigners to be gun owners as well; and have provisions for people to get gun rights restored after serving time, with conditions obviously. They do have registration of guns but from the looks of it; it looks more like NFA or vehicle registration on its face, as opposed to State owner databases for confiscation?

 

[Koda]

Not only that, they actually lay out provisions for foreigners to be gun owners as well; and have provisions for people to get gun rights restored after serving time, with conditions obviously. They do have registration of guns but from the looks of it; it looks more like NFA or vehicle registration on its face, as opposed to State owner databases for confiscation?

well I just learned about this so all I know is on the Wikipedia link, but it does look like a good system thats a constitutional right like ours but a tad more restrictive with registration, mental health eval, and a proficiency test. My guess is the practical difference between us is they don't have a government agenda to prohibit guns, so things like registration etc. are more useful to keep their crime rates low.

Its worth noting their history of gun rights is similar to ours except they havent forgot the lesson learned.

 

[Creamee]

An invasion of the US by a foreign power will seem very unlikely to most people here in the US. But do you think Ukraine's situation could be used to bolster our own firearm freedoms here in our country?

Most people are smart enough to know you can't cross an ocean and land troops in North America. Its not just "unlikely" its basically impossible.

Foreigners that want to mess with the US need only invest in propagating stupid culture war nonsense and conspiracy theories.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Most people are smart enough to know you can't cross an ocean and land troops in North America. Its not just "unlikely" its basically impossible.

Foreigners that want to mess with the US need only invest in propagating stupid culture war nonsense and conspiracy theories.

Stage in Greenland or Aleutians, or even the Arctic Circle then send aircraft over Canada to airdrop to take Canadian sites out. They'll still have to deal with the Alaska ANG, Canadian Air Force and NORAD defense networks though... but that's one route
Another would to simply make friends with the Cartels in Mexico and promise them that you'll provide armor and support in exchange for having routes and protection for entry into the US southern border.

 

[Tony617]

Stage in Greenland or Aleutians, or even the Arctic Circle then send aircraft over Canada to airdrop to take Canadian sites out. They'll still have to deal with the Alaska ANG, Canadian Air Force and NORAD defense networks though... but that's one route
Another would to simply make friends with the Cartels in Mexico and promise them that you'll provide armor and support in exchange for having routes and protection for entry into the US southern border.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...u-invited-Chinas-PLA-train-troops-Canada.html

 

[The Heretic]

Stage in Greenland or Aleutians, or even the Arctic Circle then send aircraft over Canada to airdrop to take Canadian sites out. They'll still have to deal with the Alaska ANG, Canadian Air Force and NORAD defense networks though... but that's one route
Another would to simply make friends with the Cartels in Mexico and promise them that you'll provide armor and support in exchange for having routes and protection for entry into the US southern border.

And I bet that Putin wouldn't mind taking AK back

 

[3MTA3]

And I bet that Putin wouldn't mind taking AK back

Normally I'd say he's be MAD to try... but then again Biden. Might just need to buy a few more more of Hunter's originals and throw in a nice big ice cream cone

 

[Creamee]

Stage in Greenland or Aleutians, or even the Arctic Circle then send aircraft over Canada to airdrop to take Canadian sites out. They'll still have to deal with the Alaska ANG, Canadian Air Force and NORAD defense networks though... but that's one route
Another would to simply make friends with the Cartels in Mexico and promise them that you'll provide armor and support in exchange for having routes and protection for entry into the US southern border.

"Stage in Greenland"

Okay, you're China or Russia. Your navy does not have the capacity to cross a sizable land army (and you're going to need one) over an ocean. Your navy is designed to patrol your territorial waters and move some equipment here and there. It is not designed for transoceanic troop deployment and sustainment.

Its about a 12 hour drive from Russia to northern Syria.

"Another would to simply make friends with the Cartels"

The cartels are profit driven. They need Americans with disposable income putting junk in their bodies. The margins work if the border is as porous as it is. War in the states would free up public sentiment to militarize the border like crazy, and that would mean no more cash for our amigos del sud.

It's in the strategic advantage of other countries like Russia and China to dispel American influence in their parts of the world by sewing discord here. Dominating the north American continent will do nothing for them. But they'd need a navy capable of supporting such an operation, then they'd need to begin landing troops and moving inland from where our tanks, jets, food, and guns are made. There is no cutting off American supply lines in America.

Far better to undercut us at home with silly Duginesque propaganda and conspiracy theories and such. North America is the only continent living in the 21st century; the rest of the world still operates by the balance of power statecraft of the 19th century.

 

[chukar]

Everyone needs one.

There are some pretty huge differences between what is happening in Ukraine and what might happen here. Invasion of the US by an external threat is pretty unlikely at present in my opinion - not many powers want to face the US military on their home turf, and having oceans on either side makes an excellent defensive barrier. An opposing force would need to resupply, and a lot can go wrong with a supply chain that stretches across an ocean.

I think civil war is also pretty unlikely, as I don't see any US state governments having the political will, military might, and public support to secede from the union. Could there be warring factions that vye for dominance of the existing US? Sure, but still unlikely. Such groups would need tens of millions of followers, strong leadership, and a compelling justification for violent actions that the public would generally support. I just don't see that happening in the US as it stands today.

Widespread civil unrest is another story. We've seen it happen before on a smaller scale (election riots, George Floyd riots, CHOP, etc.), and there wasn't much that could be done to stop them. I think the US is a powder keg right now thanks to years of polarization by extremes of both political parties. It will take more than a little spark to ignite, but it's certainly more of a possibility than the alternatives.

How you could use the Ukraine situation to bolster support for 2A here in the US? I think that would be a hard sell. Most citizens aren't arming up to fight a war. They are arming up to defend themselves from criminals. There isn't a common enemy to point to, and a lot of people don't see crime in person, just on the news, so for them it isn't a real immediate concern - it's a problem that other people have.

I think it would take an economic crisis combined with supply shortages, widespread rioting, and numerous acts of highly visible violent crime before the average suburbanite concludes they really do need an AR15 after all. I sincerely hope none of that happens.

Well written and well replied to both of you Gentlemen.

Not "wants some" but "needs some"...

 

[ma96782]

RE : Post #16 and Gun Control in Europe

Most of Europe Anyway......
Yup.....there is no need to spend a fair share on a NATO defense budget. Yeah, give up the country in the face of a known/coming enemy and future of oppression. Then expect those terrible Yanks to die for you and free your country. Rrrrright.....not when it's so much more fun to spend money on "immigrants" and the "social welfare programs".

Oh......SO PROGRESSIVE.

NO, No, no......the subject was Europe.

Or was it?

Aloha, Mark

PS........music break time.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Most people are smart enough to know you can't cross an ocean and land troops in North America. Its not just "unlikely" its basically impossible.

Foreigners that want to mess with the US need only invest in propagating stupid culture war nonsense and conspiracy theories.

Elites like Soros, Gates and Bloomberg will destroy America from within.

 

[Knobgoblin]

 

[3MTA3]

Elites like Soros, Gates and Bloomberg will destroy America from within.

And it's not only working, it's ahead of schedule

 

[Caveman Jim]

Elites like Soros, Gates and Bloomberg will destroy America from within.

And this is how it's going to happen.

 

[ma96782]

I'm wondering.......

I mean how many of our Presidents or Congress Critters have actually gone shooting vs Golfing in the recent past?

 

[41mag]

North America is the only continent living in the 21st century; the rest of the world still operates by the balance of power statecraft of the 19th century.

I like this observation. Will have to ponder how true it might be.

 

[ma96782]

Another would to simply make friends with the Cartels in Mexico and promise them that you'll provide armor and support in exchange for having routes and protection for entry into the US southern border.

Red Dawn version 1
Yeah.......how much longer til?


Nah.....it'll probably all be computerized by then. Along with the lists of CCW holders. But then.......

"Lebensraum"

So Rrrrright.....why bother with trains and camps?

Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

There are some pretty huge differences between what is happening in Ukraine and what might happen here. Invasion of the US by an external threat is pretty unlikely at present in my opinion - not many powers want to face the US military on their home turf, and having oceans on either side makes an excellent defensive barrier. An opposing force would need to resupply, and a lot can go wrong with a supply chain that stretches across an ocean.

I think civil war is also pretty unlikely, as I don't see any US state governments having the political will, military might, and public support to secede from the union. Could there be warring factions that vye for dominance of the existing US? Sure, but still unlikely. Such groups would need tens of millions of followers, strong leadership, and a compelling justification for violent actions that the public would generally support. I just don't see that happening in the US as it stands today.

Widespread civil unrest is another story. We've seen it happen before on a smaller scale (election riots, George Floyd riots, CHOP, etc.), and there wasn't much that could be done to stop them. I think the US is a powder keg right now thanks to years of polarization by extremes of both political parties. It will take more than a little spark to ignite, but it's certainly more of a possibility than the alternatives.

How you could use the Ukraine situation to bolster support for 2A here in the US? I think that would be a hard sell. Most citizens aren't arming up to fight a war. They are arming up to defend themselves from criminals. There isn't a common enemy to point to, and a lot of people don't see crime in person, just on the news, so for them it isn't a real immediate concern - it's a problem that other people have.

I think it would take an economic crisis combined with supply shortages, widespread rioting, and numerous acts of highly visible violent crime before the average suburbanite concludes they really do need an AR15 after all. I sincerely hope none of that happens.

Well said

 

[Creamee]

I like this observation. Will have to ponder how true it might be.

I can't take complete credit for it. John Mearsheimer (

) from UChicago repeats that a lot when he talks about foreign policy. He thinks its to our disadvantage. I'm not so sure.

Definitely interesting to think about.

 

[dancinghippos]

In 1994, The US and Great Britain convinced the new Ukrainian leadership to give up their nuclear weapons in exchange for $175 Million and the promise that they would protect Ukraine if things went bad with Russia. "Give up your protection and we will protect you". How is that going now?

In 1975, the Khmer Rough won the Cambodian revolution. They rounded up all the peoples' guns, telling them, "you no longer need them. We will protect you".

Now in America, politicians who can't control street crime and can't manage to win a war against a fourth world country like Iraq or Afghanistan want you to give up your self-defense, because, they will protect you.