Amnesty Form 1 approval

[TTSX]

I'm an 07/02 SOT with 30 years experience. You don't know where to engrave a caliber marking. We are not the same

Since there's through confusion right now, I'm going to ask my own. Is the barrel length on a form 1 the only length that SBR can have or is it freely changeable? Like if I put 12.5" on the form but want to change to 8" down the road, is that allowed or are there more forms? Also, changing chambering. Like from 5.56 on the form to 6.5 grendel later.

 

[solv3nt]

Since there's through confusion right now, I'm going to ask my own. Is the barrel length on a form 1 the only length that SBR can have or is it freely changeable? Like if I put 12.5" on the form but want to change to 8" down the road, is that allowed or are there more forms? Also, changing chambering. Like from 5.56 on the form to 6.5 grendel later.

My understanding is that you need to let the AFT know.

 

[RX-79G]

I'm an 07/02 SOT with 30 years experience. You don't know where to engrave a caliber marking. We are not the same

Didnt say we were. Are you the same as an ATF agent?

 

[CamoDeafie]

I think it depends ? If it's the amnesty Form 1, then they ask to inform them to update if the Overall Length changes; maybe also the caliber.. but otherwise, I don't know if they really care what upper goes on the SBR lower, for the regular tax paid SBRs?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Can you get that all to fit on an SBR barrel?

 

[solv3nt]

Didnt say we were. Are you the same as an ATF agent?

So are you putting a new serial number on it then? You know, to comply with you being the manufacturer.

 

[wired]

Didnt say we were. Are you the same as an ATF agent?

My testimony could be used as expert testimony in a trial

 

[wired]

My understanding is that you need to let the AFT know.

Need to? No.They like you to.

 

[RX-79G]

So are you putting a new serial number on it then? You know, to comply with you being the manufacturer.

No. You know very well that is a mark you can adopt. On any SBR.

 

[wired]

So are you putting a new serial number on it then? You know, to comply with you being the manufacturer.

He is never a manufacturer

 

[solv3nt]

He is never a manufacturer

I know. I'm curious though why some of the stuff he reads is appropriate, but not all.

 

[waltermitty]

"I know. I'm curious though why some of the stuff he reads is appropriate, but not all."

I believe the confusion lies in the definitions: BATF RE-DEFINED specifically for the purpose of pistol-with-legal-brace...which changed in January 2023 NOW as short-bbl-rifle. Under the window period Feb-May 2023 BATF has specifically departed from the longstanding NFA Form 1 requirements by granting a variance with respect to engraving, serializing, definition of Maker, and the payment of the tax:

OLD
the entity responsible for creating the NFA item is called the maker and that maker is to engrave that information on the newly created Title 2 firearm
NEW
The maker of the braced pistol is allowed to adopt the manufacturer's existing markings as they relate to make, model, caliber. Under the amnesty, this is a one time exception which expires at the end of May 2023.

OLD
maker/applicant of the Title 2 firearm pays $200 for the tax stamp (exception SOT already paid by virtue of the SOT license)
NEW
Under the amnesty, this $200 tax stamp fee is waived if a braced pistol is being submitted under the 2023 amnesty period, again ending at the end of May.

 

[wired]

I believe the confusion lies in the definitions: once when gauged by established NFA regulations and that which has been RE-DEFINED specifically for the purpose of pistol-with-legal-brace...which changed in January 2023 NOW as short-bbl-rifle. However, for the purpose of the amnesty, BATF has specifically departed from the longstanding NFA Form 1 requirements by granting a variance with respect to engraving, serializing, definition of Maker, and the payment of the tax:

OLD
the entity responsible for creating the NFA item is called the maker and that maker is to engrave that information on the newly created Title 2 firearm
NEW
The maker of the braced pistol is allowed to adopt the manufacturer's existing markings as they relate to make, model, caliber. Under the amnesty, this is a one time exception which expires at the end of May 2023.

OLD
maker/applicant of the Title 2 firearm pays $200 for the tax stamp (exception SOT already paid by virtue of the SOT license)
NEW
Under the amnesty, this $200 tax stamp fee is waived if a braced pistol is being submitted under the 2023 amnesty period, again ending at the end of May.

The ATF's legal position is that when you put a brace on it You made an SBR. It has always been an SBR ever since you, or the original manufacturer of the firearm ( or receiver ) put a brace on it. Theyre saying that because well, it has been. They do not have and did not have the legal authority to tell you it is OK to make an SBR without doing a form 1. Its a bit of legal wrangling but the whole "forbearance" thing is a way to work around potential prosecutions. What came as a bit of a surprise was the waiving of the excise tax. They do have the legal authority to do that the same way they waive Form 3 and 5 transfers but it was unexpected to most. I thought the would have to if they wanted ANY compliance and to reduce the success of legal challenges.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I believe the confusion lies in the definitions: BATF RE-DEFINED specifically for the purpose of pistol-with-legal-brace...which changed in January 2023 NOW as short-bbl-rifle. Under the window period Feb-May 2023 BATF has specifically departed from the longstanding NFA Form 1 requirements by granting a variance with respect to engraving, serializing, definition of Maker, and the payment of the tax:

OLD
the entity responsible for creating the NFA item is called the maker and that maker is to engrave that information on the newly created Title 2 firearm
NEW
The maker of the braced pistol is allowed to adopt the manufacturer's existing markings as they relate to make, model, caliber. Under the amnesty, this is a one time exception which expires at the end of May 2023.

OLD
maker/applicant of the Title 2 firearm pays $200 for the tax stamp (exception SOT already paid by virtue of the SOT license)
NEW
Under the amnesty, this $200 tax stamp fee is waived if a braced pistol is being submitted under the 2023 amnesty period, again ending at the end of May.

This horse was beaten to death back in January. Peopel were saying it must be engraved back then despite atf saying it doesn't need to be. Can't believe people are still questioning it. Why not just drop it?

 

[solv3nt]

Why not just drop it?

Dropped you say....

 

[wired]

This horse was beaten to death back in January. Peopel were saying it must be engraved back then despite atf saying it doesn't need to be. Can't believe people are still questioning it. Why not just drop it?

I was one of those saying that the ATF was really saying you had to engrave when it looked like they were saying you didn't. Then they went out of their way to make it clear they were serious . OK, whatever have your way. For personal form 1 stuff I'll never engrave again.

 

[SCannon]

Here is what I understand, I had two stripped lowers that I bought in the past couple of years. Both of them serialized, I built them into a 300blk and a 9mm pistol, both with braces. Since I did that before January 1, 2023. They were in a current SBR configuration that fell under the amnesty. Since they are in existing form you are not manufacturing anything with the Form 1 and engraving is not required. If you built a stripped lower into a pistol after the ruling, it does not qualify for the amnesty and have to go the traditional Form 1 and engrave it. Which means you cannot build with a stock until you receive the approval and engrave it.
My MP5 I bought in February and submitted in March, I had to wait until receiving my approved form 1 to have it engraved and then add my stock and foregrip.

 

[waltermitty]

This horse was beaten to death back in January. Peopel were saying it must be engraved back then despite atf saying it doesn't need to be. Can't believe people are still questioning it. Why not just drop it?

well, no. I'm not responding to you or a historical post. I'm replying to solv3nt's query. If you've live on the forum and have a retrospective perspective and memory of previous discussions, thus, an objection to my reply...well....

 

[solv3nt]

well, no. I'm not responding to you or a historical post. I'm replying to solv3nt's query. If you've live on the forum and have a retrospective perspective and memory of previous discussions, thus, an objection to my reply...well....

Not my query, @RX-79G.

 

[SCannon]

I was one of those saying that the ATF was really saying you had to engrave when it looked like they were saying you didn't. Then they went out of their way to make it clear they were serious . OK, whatever have your way. For personal form 1 stuff I'll never engrave again.

I emailed the ATF on engraving non-amnesty SBR's. I understood it to be that engraving was not necessary unless you were to sell it in the future. I contacted the ATF for clarification, they are surprisingly responsive.

From: Mays, Patricia A. (ATF) <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2023 11:47 AM
To: Scott Cannon <scannon@******.com>
Subject: FW: SBR crossing State lines

Yes, before completion you will need to engrave your item.


From: Scott Cannon <scannon@*******.com>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2023 11:47 AM
To: IPB <[email protected]>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: SBR crossing State lines

Thank you for the information!

I just received the approval for the non-amnesty one. It is a pistol that I'm converting into an SBR. (MP5).

Now the question, before I build it does it need to be engraved? I don't seem to get a straight answer from anyone. My gun store says I need to engrave the trust name on it, before building it into the SBR. I see some trust lawyers say that I don't need to engrave it, unless I plan on selling it or transferring it.

I plan on keeping this one forever, so am I required to engrave it before adding the stock?