americans-under-30-have-rapidly-turned-against-gun-control-laws-poll-finds

[mhayd93]

I definitely did not mean to suggest not to netbang on me because of some self-percieved imposing intellect, etc. — I hope that was clear. I'm a libertarian in the actual, non-anarchocapitalist sense — which is to say I'm pro-freedom and equality for everyone. I consider that more American than leftist. It sounds like you disagree, which is great and keeps things interesting. Like you, though, I bet if we met in real life, we'd quickly find things we enjoy talking about more than political philosophy.

Normally I won't waste my time pushing back on the netbangers here in the forums, but it is important to remind people that the loudest voices do not get to define what it means to be pro-2A. Not to score a gotcha with the blowhards, but because there are nascent or socially-peripheral gun owners who may not yet have the confidence or experience to be able to speak up in this type of adversarial venue. So sometimes I see some dumb crap on here and I call it like I see it. Who cares. I mean, it's basically always 20-on-1 when I do — why are you guys (not you individually @CLT65 ) the sensitive ones?

Holding the hands of adults and advocating for those that "lack confidence" sounds like the slippery slope from Libertarianism to big government doesn't it? Being adversarial against other free thinkers who just want their rights to be unmolested hardly sounds like the actions of a Libertarian!

 

[ZigZagZeke]

ZZZ, you're posting some goofy, made-up, no-source interview from Bill Maher as your appeal to authority? You take his hot air as gospel and construct your own straw man based on his cultural analysis of young people? Bill Maher is one of the most grifty dudes in all of media. The only people who care about Bill Maher are lazy, low-information blowhards who either love him or love-to-hate him. I'm not even going to go into how the whole premise of what he posits is immediately and verifiably false because I do not believe you are earnestly making this argument. We just don't have time for this in 2021.

Nice try. I wasn't out to prove anything. Don't go tilting at windmills that aren't there. It's an OPINION piece, but maybe nobody taught you to recognize the difference. Here's a newsflash for you. It's an opinion that from the perspective of 73 years, I agree with. I don't need Maher or anyone else's authority. My own opinions have their own value. I have kids ranging in age from 47 to 6. I've seen and dealt with 25 year old thinking first hand several times now. They usually outgrow it though.

And no, you don't get off that easy. You don't get to flick his words away and move on. If what he says is immediately and verifiably false feel free to outline exactly where and how. But realize you'd be arguing with opinions, not scientific research.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Ah, I apologize for keeping you waiting! I had no idea that you existed, let alone were owed an explaination by me for stating my opinion! Yes indeed, how polite you are! Yes, you are absolutely entitled to whatever you want from a stranger on the internet! You'll notice I've had my hands full with a bunch of real Reply Guys on here who have been hoping to dunk on me, lol. Keep waiting — you're doing great.

And yet you turn right around and do exactly the same thing to me.

 

[LDmax]

Ah, I apologize for keeping you waiting! I had no idea that you existed, let alone were owed an explaination by me for stating my opinion! Yes indeed, how polite you are! Yes, you are absolutely entitled to whatever you want from a stranger on the internet! You'll notice I've had my hands full with a bunch of real Reply Guys on here who have been hoping to dunk on me, lol. Keep waiting — you're doing great.

Thanks for your reply, and take all the time you need. Sorry for being entitled

 

[ma96782]

Soon Antifa themed firearm training schools will be popping up like Starbucks, weed shops and piercing/tattoo parlors.

Did you mean like this?

Aloha, Mark

 

[BillyJean]

Holding the hands of adults and advocating for those that "lack confidence" sounds like the slippery slope from Libertarianism to big government doesn't it? Being adversarial against other free thinkers who just want their rights to be unmolested hardly sounds like the actions of a Libertarian!

"Holding the hands" is your language, not mine. You'd do better to read and respond to what I've actually said. I encourage you to do so.

Libertarianism by necessity respects and holds space for other people's freedom. If your libertarianism isn't others-centered, you're just advocating for a bunch of babies acting out.

Seeing how many gun owners in this thread willingly make fools of themselves trying to dunk on one person with a more complicated POV than them illustrates my point about gun owners being bad examples of citizens. Your Us vs. Them attitude is always on, and anyone who doesn't question you or make you feel uncomfortable is with you, while anyone who does ask questions or make points that make you feel uncomfortable is Them.

You're regurgitating propaganda and dealing in ignorance and fear-mongering. Don't mistake yourself for the free thinker. Be honest with yourself — there's at least dignity in that.

 

[BillyJean]

Thanks for your reply, and take all the time you need. Sorry for being entitled

You're from Eugene. It's expected

 

[Alexx1401]

The idea does sound great. What concerns me is how will they vote after claiming in the poll they do not support more laws. This group is a VERY micro slice of the gun owning community but, look how many people here support the Administration was have now, and will refuse to hear they are anti gun. It's one thing to say something in a poll but if they then either will not bother to vote, or go out and vote for the people passing more laws?

 

[FourTeeFive]

Did you mean like this?

Aloha, Mark

Did they actually hit anything? Looks like they crapped up the environment nicely.

These people, Socialist Rifle Association, etc. all seem pretty clueless. Reminds me of the LARPers carrying around ARs in CHOP/CHAZ.

 

[msgriff]

Did they actually hit anything? Looks like they crapped up the environment nicely.

These people, Socialist Rifle Association, etc. all seem pretty clueless. Reminds me of the LARPers carrying around ARs in CHOP/CHAZ.

A daily dose of riot control gas has a tendency to do that. And as shown in this thread, it also makes them sanctimonious.

 

[BillyJean]

Nice try. I wasn't out to prove anything. Don't go tilting at windmills that aren't there. It's an OPINION piece, but maybe nobody taught you to recognize the difference. Here's a newsflash for you. It's an opinion that from the perspective of 73 years, I agree with. I don't need Maher or anyone else's authority. My own opinions have their own value. I have kids ranging in age from 47 to 6. I've seen and dealt with 25 year old thinking first hand several times now. They usually outgrow it though.

And no, you don't get off that easy. You don't get to flick his words away and move on. If what he says is immediately and verifiably false feel free to outline exactly where and how. But realize you'd be arguing with opinions, not scientific research.

I agree with you that it's certainly a piece. And I'll take your word it's your opinion, or his, or whatever. I'm glad Bill Maher resonates so much with you.

Normally I don't work for free, but I like you and don't want you to be led astray by Bill Maher.

18-34 YOs have been the most valued demographic to marketers because they view this demographic as being most likely to spend a greater portion of their earnings on consumer products and services. They are also the largest demographic by population, having overtaken the waning boomers. They're starting to make adult wages but are less likely to have to have a family, big mortgages, health issues, etc., taking chunks of their money. They go out more, socialize more, and therefore spend more and more diversely. It is the time when most people are positioning themselves in their career trajectory, love life, and social life, which all costs money. Less responsibility, more free time, more disposable income. This is widely available info. So they are the most valuable because, 1) literally they spend the most, and 2) there are more peole in that generation, which means for businesses generally they are the sweetest juice for the squeeze. Marketers spend more money appealing to them because they have to — millennials are extraordinarily marketing/media savvy, and are quick to call out BS by companies whose entreaties older generations are generally not sophisticated enough to be aware of. Old folks don't get marketed to by marketers becasue medical device salespeople and the medical industry writ-large are already in charge of taking all your money.

I'm sure that's not the case with you, of course.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

1) literally they spend the most, and 2) there are more peole in that generation, which means for businesses generally they are the sweetest juice for the squeeze. Marketers spend more money appealing to them because they have to — millennials are extraordinarily marketing/media savvy, and are quick to call out BS by companies whose entreaties older generations are generally not sophisticated enough to be aware of. Old folks don't get marketed to by marketers becasue medical device salespeople and the medical industry writ-large are already in charge of taking all your money.

I generally agree with the broad stroke of your analysis. We differ on why things are the way they are.

Yes, they have lots of money and they spend it. Largely because a large chunk of this group gets $40K or so per semester in loans and grants, which they are supposed to spend on tuition, books, housing, and food. It is my observation, living in a town with a very large university which is the single largest industry around here, that there are whole industries (Grub Hub, etc.) built around delivering $40 cheeseburgers to dormitories.

And it is precisely because these people are NOT quick to call out BS by companies whose entreaties older generations are generally ARE sophisticated enough to be aware of, that these industries exist. These people are loved by corporations for the same reason that the most naive poker player is loved by his comrades, who send a cab for him so he can get to the game. Such nice guys.

Back in the 60's and 70's when people ran out of money and the economy was in danger of stalling we invented the credit card so people could spend money they didn't yet have. Once everyone had credit cards with balances things began to stall again, so we put stay at home spouses to work. When that fresh cash was absorbed by the economy and things began to stall again, we invented 2nd mortgages. It's no coincidence that late 1960's-70's cars were designed for 30 year old defense industry and construction workers, or that 1980's cars were designed to appeal to middle aged homeowners, or that 1990's cars were designed to appeal to 30 something women. Design indeed follows function, but even more so, it follows the money, as do most American products. The latest booster shot for the economy has been college tuition loans, producing a group of the most naive consumers in history, who have relatively large amounts of cash available, and not much of it committed to anything. Thus the era of the $40 delivery cheeseburger.

To echo Maher, it's not that I don't understand what you are saying. It's not that I don't "get" modern technology. It's that what you are saying runs counter to my experience of the world, a body of experience that you (et al) don't have. I tell my 25 year old the way something irrefutably, provably is and has always been, and I get back, "Yes, but I think it works this way." To him there are no such things as objective facts. Everything is an opinion and all opinions have equal value, which is clearly NOT the case, unless you haven't lived much.

No we're not going to agree on these things, or many others probably, because we stand on different planets. Yours is 30 some years old and mine is 70 some years old. I see patterns and trends over time that you do not. That is plain fact. The current patterns and trends will come to an end and be replaced by new ones. And we will all wonder why we thought the way we did 20 years ago.

 

[Alexx1401]

I generally agree with the broad stroke of your analysis. We differ on why things are the way they are.

Yes, they have lots of money and they spend it. Largely because a large chunk of this group gets $40K or so per semester in loans and grants, which they are supposed to spend on tuition, books, housing, and food. It is my observation, living in a town with a very large university which is the single largest industry around here, that there are whole industries (Grub Hub, etc.) built around delivering $40 cheeseburgers to dormitories.

Last time I was in college again I was AMAZED how bad this was. They had started to give "student loans" to almost anyone. I watched as a shocking number of people at my school would get those checks and BLOW them. We got our payouts from the school. At each semester they would take out the cost of that semester, the rest was handed to you in a check. You still had to buy the books you needed for the courses you chose. Some blew the money so fast they had to scramble to get the few books they needed. Yet they sure had neat new toys the next day. Many of them would then of course either barely keep a passing GPA or get booted. As I watched this I used to say it will not be long till we will see law makers want to erase these loans. Took longer than I thought it would but it finally got here. Don't know if they still do but when I got my loan I had to pass a few "tests" to show I understood that this debt would never "go away" for life if I did not pay it. Yet of course years later here come the crying that they didn't understand.

 

[Ridge Walker]

No bud, you're just in a little over your waders and don't realize it. But that's ok — I'm not worth the trouble.

How is asking for examples to back up your judemental derrogatory comments 'in over my waders'? Your failure to do so would seem to indicate the opposite, that you are the one taking on water.

So you finally have addressed me with a true statement, you are not worth the trouble. AMF

 

[Old Dog]

18-34 YOs have been the most valued demographic to marketers because they view this demographic as being most likely to spend a greater portion of their earnings on consumer products and services. They are also the largest demographic by population, having overtaken the waning boomers. They're starting to make adult wages but are less likely to have to have a family, big mortgages, health issues, etc., taking chunks of their money. They go out more, socialize more, and therefore spend more and more diversely. It is the time when most people are positioning themselves in their career trajectory, love life, and social life, which all costs money. Less responsibility, more free time, more disposable income. This is widely available info. So they are the most valuable because, 1) literally they spend the most, and 2) there are more peole in that generation, which means for businesses generally they are the sweetest juice for the squeeze. Marketers spend more money appealing to them because they have to — millennials are extraordinarily marketing/media savvy, and are quick to call out BS by companies whose entreaties older generations are generally not sophisticated enough to be aware of. Old folks don't get marketed to by marketers becasue medical device salespeople and the medical industry writ-large are already in charge of taking all your money.

Well, arriving late to this party, but... wow, just wow. Yes, certainly the millennials are all about diversity and inclusivity, except when it comes to boomers and older folk. Ageism is alive and well.

At least BillyJean gets that 18-34 are such a valued demographic to marketers because they spend so much of their income on useless, stupid and obsolescent products and services. Not sure millennials are so "extraordinarily marketing/media savvy," given the juvenile nature of what passes for entertainment, culture and learning these days.

Some of us are blessed... er, cursed with having the majority of our workforce under our supervision being millennials. Ah, the stories I could tell about the lack of integrity, the lack of work ethic and the general unwillingness to live in the actual world rather than the virtual reality that most are obsessed with. And the horror they face when they get in a situation where they have to part with their handheld electronic devices for even a few minutes, reminds of that scene in the movie where Meryl Streep's character has a dingo take her baby...

 

[Alexx1401]

Well, arriving late to this party, but... wow, just wow. Yes, certainly the millennials are all about diversity and inclusivity, except when it comes to boomers and older folk. Ageism is alive and well.

At least BillyJean gets that 18-34 are such a valued demographic to marketers because they spend so much of their income on useless, stupid and obsolescent products and services. Not sure millennials are so "extraordinarily marketing/media savvy," given the juvenile nature of what passes for entertainment, culture and learning these days.

Some of us are blessed... er, cursed with having the majority of our workforce under our supervision being millennials. Ah, the stories I could tell about the lack of integrity, the lack of work ethic and the general unwillingness to live in the actual world rather than the virtual reality that most are obsessed with. And the horror they face when they get in a situation where they have to part with their handheld electronic devices for even a few minutes, reminds of that scene in the movie where Meryl Streep's character has a dingo take her baby...

Very sad indeed. The lack of work ethic is probably the one that bothers me most. So damn many have had someone to take care of every mess they made, support them no matter what dumb thing they did, so they of course treat work as something of VERY low importance. Where I work we get "sick time" the accrues. Used to be to use it you had to be off for a few days. State passed yet another law that did away with this. So a lot of people who burned through their paid time off as fast as they got it? Suddenly found out they could burn all that sick time as "I don't want to come to work because its Monday". This was a lot of fun as short staffing was out of control till they burned all those hours. The real fun starts when one of them really does get hurt or have a family emergency. Now they get no check and scream and cry. So state passed yet another law. Tax us for a "fund" to pay these people yet again. Month after law went in fund ran out of money so again screaming and crying. Keep thinking ant/ grasshopper. If I every get hurt I have enough hours to get paid for 3 months if needed. A LOT of these people are going to be in real trouble when their parents are no longer around to bail them out or let them live with them again when they run out of job and money. Then they will of course scream for "someone else" to "take care of them".

 

[Mikej]

Gun owners are generally terrible representatives of good citizenship,

What a pile of hooey. And a thread crapper to boot.

 

[Alexx1401]

What a pile of hooey. And a thread crapper to boot.

I must be missing someone here? Don't see the posts several of you are mentioning. I don't have them on ignore so have to guess they have me. Guess it works out for me

 

[bbbass]

I must be missing someone here? Don't see the posts several of you are mentioning. I don't have them on ignore so have to guess they have me. Guess it works out for me

I'm loving it!

I see all the "excited" posters, but don't have to read the drivel!!!

 

[Mikej]

I'm loving it!

I see all the "excited" posters, but don't have to read the drivel!!!

I only read a little. When I see it's a turd, I just step over it and keep going.