Active Shooter at Reynolds Highschool, Troutdale Oregon

[Freefallen]

About 11419 were killed with a firearm last year. There were 34080 killed in auto accidents. About 3000 die from fire. So perspective, we should ban cars first I mean 23000 more people died in auto accidents than firearms. There is also no background checks for vehicles, age restriction to purchase, finger prints, or across state line purchase. Can you imagine a Vehicle ban on sport cars because after all they go fast, look cool, and cause 1/3 rd the deaths. Then there is the horsepower, can we get a horsepower capcity restriction? Hey your limited to 100hp. Tire purchases, only 2 per customer we have a shortage. Aftermarket mods like exhaust, heads, intake, and gears--banned if you are caught with Nitrous, federal time..

 

[ereezy503]

The discussion is about murder with a firearm, because that is what occurred here. Comparing murder with a firearm to auto accidents has nothing to do with anything. The next time a kid accidentally shoots themselves with their parents gun that statistic might be relevant, but there was nothing accidental about the Reynolds shooting.

A more relevant study might be comparing murder with a firearm to murder with a:
Automobile
Knife
Poison
Explosives
Etc.

Number of incidents, number of victims per incident.

That would be more interesting to me than comparing gun deaths to Car Crashes, Shark Attacks, Falls off Roofs, Cancer, Heart Attacks........................

 

[etrain16]

The discussion is about murder with a firearm, because that is what occurred here. Comparing murder with a firearm to auto accidents has nothing to do with anything. The next time a kid accidentally shoots themselves with their parents gun that statistic might be relevant, but there was nothing accidental about the Reynolds shooting.

A more relevant study might be comparing murder with a firearm to murder with a:
Automobile
Knife
Poison
Explosives
Etc.

Number of incidents, number of victims per incident.

That would be more interesting to me than comparing gun deaths to Car Crashes, Shark Attacks, Falls off Roofs, Cancer, Heart Attacks........................

I would say it is relevant to the discussion. Yes, the current issue is about a murder. But they (POTUS, Joey, Feinstein, Bloomberg, etc.) also get up in arms about someone who is accidentally killed with a firearm, not just murders, especially if it's a child. And that type of accidental death really doesn't differ from an automobile accident. They like to use the phrase over and over "if we could save just one life". Okay, if saving lives is really what they're concerned about, and it isn't about gun control as they so often claim, then death by any means - murder, accident, suicide, should all be valid in this discussion. The point is, they really don't care about the deaths, they care about control.

It's about pointing out the hypocrisy in what they're saying. They aren't actually concerned about murders - as you already noted, murders happen in many different ways, including bare hands. They are specifically targeting guns - we know this is the case. To point out the numbers killed in auto accidents, regardless of accident or murder, is very valid when we're trying to show that they really don't care about deaths - they only care about the guns. Another hypocritical point is that they hardly bat an eye at a gang shooting, but are so quick to jump on a school shooting.

 

[Dave Workman]

I would say it is relevant to the discussion.

I quite agree, especially in Washington the anti-gunners have raised the argument that more people have died from "gun violence" than car crashes. They did that, not the gun community. THEY brought that strategy onto the playing field, not us.

So, yes, etrain is spot on with his analysis.

 

[RicInOR]

A couple random thoughts one day on

Why did the PE teacher have to run all the way to the office to start the lock down?
What if his injury had been one to immobilize him?




I am in another discussion on robots - you may remember the 3 laws of robots from the book and or movie I Robot. If we are concern about saving just one life, then why do we allow any bad food anywhere. Heart Disease is our biggest killer - and they say that diet is the biggest contributor to that - except when they don't and it is lack of exercise or ciggies.




The violence has always been with us. It is just now a global nano-second away. Bath anyone?
" The Bath School disaster refers to the series of violent attacks perpetrated by [Andrew Kehoe] on May 18, 1927, in Bath Township, Michigan, that killed 38 elementary school children and six adults in total, and injured at least 58 other people " Shooter was "was angered by increased taxes and his defeat in the Spring 1926 election for township clerk."
I was going thru a Virginia news stations web page - Hampton Roads complex - and there is a lot of violence there, we generally don't hear about it here. Simular to the Chicago post above - which shouldn't happen as difficult as getting a weapon in that town has been, not to mention the leadership of the GodFather.



If you want the FBI statistics
2013 Prliminary
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...annual-uniform-crime-report-january-june-2013
2012 final and revised are available also http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats

 

[4Freedom]

Well, looks like Islamic zealots are taking over Iraq and the entire Middle East may be on the verge of a great conflict. So, the media is no longer concerned about school shootings anymore.. I guess they were getting bored and needed to find a way to make Americans scared. Now, they will be having a field day with all their new Iraqi/Middle Eastern war news and school shootings will be too boring for the time being.

Probably more people died in one hour in Iraq this week then all the madman mass shootings in the USA combined.

Perhaps, we need more Islamic uprisings in the Middle East to keep the fear-mongering media busy..

 

[GrpCapMandrake]

The discussion is about murder with a firearm, because that is what occurred here. Comparing murder with a firearm to auto accidents has nothing to do with anything. The next time a kid accidentally shoots themselves with their parents gun that statistic might be relevant, but there was nothing accidental about the Reynolds shooting.

A more relevant study might be comparing murder with a firearm to murder with a:
Automobile
Knife
Poison
Explosives
Etc.

Number of incidents, number of victims per incident.

That would be more interesting to me than comparing gun deaths to Car Crashes, Shark Attacks, Falls off Roofs, Cancer, Heart Attacks........................

I would beg to differ sir. The comparison is valid inasmuch as the inevitable response to this tragedy, and the others like it, has been to demand more regulation, more oversight, more control by government authorities who know what is best for you. The comparison to automobiles, that are regulated (testing, licensing, inspections, etc, etc.), helps demonstrate how more regulation and laws are a fools errand.

 

[ereezy503]

I would say it is relevant to the discussion. Yes, the current issue is about a murder. But they (POTUS, Joey, Feinstein, Bloomberg, etc.) also get up in arms about someone who is accidentally killed with a firearm, not just murders, especially if it's a child. And that type of accidental death really doesn't differ from an automobile accident. They like to use the phrase over and over "if we could save just one life". Okay, if saving lives is really what they're concerned about, and it isn't about gun control as they so often claim, then death by any means - murder, accident, suicide, should all be valid in this discussion. The point is, they really don't care about the deaths, they care about control.

It's about pointing out the hypocrisy in what they're saying. They aren't actually concerned about murders - as you already noted, murders happen in many different ways, including bare hands. They are specifically targeting guns - we know this is the case. To point out the numbers killed in auto accidents, regardless of accident or murder, is very valid when we're trying to show that they really don't care about deaths - they only care about the guns. Another hypocritical point is that they hardly bat an eye at a gang shooting, but are so quick to jump on a school shooting.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree there. I think it is an unreasonable comparison for either side to make, and I would not make that comparison even if an anti-gunner I was arguing with would. I would try to explain to them that there is no comparison between the two statistics, then let them chew on that for a bit. When it comes to firearms both sides have their heals dug in pretty deep, and getting the other side to see your point and move your direction rarely happens. Some people are so unfamiliar with firearms that they will always be something scary to them. They have never had the joy of turning their first clay pigeon to dust, or hitting that can of tannerite dead center, or harvesting an elk to feed their family.

In the right hands firearms can be part of extremely safe recreation. In the wrong hands they are among the most deadly weapons a civilian can get their hands on. That is why they get the attention they do.

The school resource officers who responded in less than a minute likely stopped the Reynolds shooting from being a mass shooting. That should be evidence enough that armed school resource officers are effective and expanding their use should be the first step in a multifaceted approach to preventing future mass shootings in schools.

On the other hypocritical point. Gang shootings vs. School Shootings, I'll try to come back to that, gotta get back to work for now.