Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

922r compliance - for dummies (me)

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by dobeman, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. dobeman

    dobeman Hillsboro Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    542
    honestly, I haven't serched the forum for other 922r threads. Maybe there are some already laying out the nitty gritty details of 922r.

    My interest is piqued when I see classified ads and folks try and position the ad language and what they are selling around 922r.

    Now - I am a simple man, think Forrest Gump... in reading 922r, you have to consider the Statute, Title, 18 USC 922 and the CFR that codifies the law in the nitty gritty details. The intent of 922r in the Statute is all about assembly.
    Making it illegal to basically 'Radar O'Reilly' assemble State-side through imported foreign parts a gun that is otherwise illegal to import. It's nothing about owning or buying. If a gun is legally imported through a licensed
    US importer and it is then legally purchased, there is no 922r compliance issues on that gun as purchased unless the importer screwed up.

    Let's take the humble Saiga 7.62 (or .223 or your Saiga caliber of choice). The Saiga is built in Russia by the 'AK guys'. Of course you can't legally import an AK from Russia, so the Saiga is a modified AK made to look like a cute sporting rifle.
    So Joe Sixpack, say me, buys one. A year goes by, I decide to sell it here in it's original unmodified as imported and sold form. There are no 922r issues. Nobody is buying a bag of imported parts and trying to assemble an
    AK47 that would otherwise be illegal to import.

    A simple example (again, consider the source - me).... Joe Twelve Pack (my brother) comes across a US made receiver for an otherwise banned for import gun. Joe Twelve has a the idea - gee, I gunna build me up a FASKAK (fake name)
    black gun. And Joe goes down the path of using various shady connections to pull together all the parts he needs and most of these parts were imported or are parted from previously illegal guns. Joe's intent is to skirt the law and build
    him up an otherwise banned gun. He is assembling in the pure definition and intent of 922r.

    Say Joe Twelve gets away with it and later sells the illegally assembled gun to Ken Klueless. Ken is shooting at his local range, gets the attention of Danny Dogooder who calls the authorities who come to inspect Ken's gun.
    BATF wants a poster child to scare people about 922r. Can they prosecute Ken? He did no assembling. And he proves this. And he fingers Joe TwelvePack as the seller. Given all the facts come out, BATF has a case against Joe T, not Ken.

    The original Saiga buyer has no issues either.

    So if someone is selling an unconvereted Saiga on this forum, and for illustrative purposes the Saiga was legally imported and legally purchased, the FM seller or buyer have no 922r issues. Even if the seller is including magazines for said
    Saiga that have a foreign sounding name to them. Nobody is assembling a rifle from foreign imported parts to skirt the law.

    So... maybe I just don't get it, but 922r is not about supporting US economy or US vendors and ensuring that imported guns have a certain number of US made parts on them; it's all about some yahoo trying to 'Radar O'Reilly' an
    otherwise illegal gun by obtaining it piecmeal from foreign sources and assembling it stateside - to skirt the import laws.
     
  2. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    752
    For those who don't want to look it up:

    (r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to —

    (1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
    (2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.


    Now, if'n Ken Klueless is at the range shooting and Arnold ATF shows up and starts asking questions, Ken Klueless needs to be able to prove that the firearm was modified before he purchased it, otherwise Arnie ATF might just want to prosecute...
     
  3. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,663
    Likes Received:
    798
    AFAIK no one in the US has ever been prosecuted for a 922r ONLY violation. It usually accompanies other charges, like if the said weapon was used in an armed robbery, etc.

    I don't think it is technically illegal to own a non-compliant gun as long as you weren't the person doing the 'illegal' converting, but I personally wouldn't chance it. I bought a used rifle a few years back from an FFL, and I quickly discovered was not in compliance with 922r. I got it for a good price, so the extra parts I bought to make it compliant weren't a big deal and I never took it back. My personal advice would be that if you own a firearm that you suspect might be in violation of 922r, research it thoroughly and fix it.

    Keith
     
  4. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,990
    Likes Received:
    2,731
    I don't even worry about that compliance crap.
     
  5. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    5,757
    Was this towards me? You could have just asked brother. Ive been in the saiga and non neutered akm game for a little while now. No, there isnt any 922r prosecutions that Im aware of.. However if joe blow goes and gets in trouble for using his little unconverted saiga, be it crime, home defense or hunting.. He may or may not point the finger of blame on the seller who didnt mention the fact that the magazines could not be used in the said rifle.. Now the Doj Looooves dragging more hard working tax paying Americans into what should have been an isolated incident to further extort and further push their agenda. Violating 922r is also using both foreign (+3 foreign parts) as well as domestic magazines over a 10 round capacity(which violates 922r, unless a limiter is in the body otherwise restricting the mag to 10 rounds)

    Being a hard working tax paying business owner i for one cannot afford to lose even a single day of work and potential clientele.. let alone months tied up in court fees, fines and lawyer costs.

    Owning your own business allows you to see even the most ridiculous and common sense laws and regulations can put you under big time. Thus I state my conditions and have verbally (as well as electronically) expressed what 922r is and that magazines over a 10 round capacity (as supplied with the non separated "separate" package) are not to be used until the rifle is converted. This relinquishes most if not all liability on my end.
    What the owner or you do in your own time is your business, freedom and right...

    Honestly 922r is absolutely ludicrous.. And I'm sure no one will ever be prosecuted.. But then again.. With our current administration and political atmosphere nobody can be certain. Perhaps you might want to be the first? On a very public forum one can never be too safe. Derp.
     
  6. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,605
    Likes Received:
    981
    922r is law, no way that the government isn't going to use it at one time or another.

    "assemble" means different things to different people. Read it as "reconfigure", when you change the configuration of your imported (or assembled from imported parts) semi automatic rifle to one that never would have been allowed to be imported, 922r applies. Then you are allowed no more than 10 imported parts from a specific list provided by the batf.

    to ignore or consider 922r irrelevant is just plain stupid, they put a lot of stupid people in prison every year.

    Tapco has a nice section on 922r compliance TAPCO - Section 922r Compliance
     
  7. dobeman

    dobeman Hillsboro Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    542
    I don't think so.. just been building up inside me.. I see quite a few ads here and other forums where sellers seem to twist themselves around wording of 922r compliance and in discussion forums in general. Some people, I think, think it's geared towards keeping business in the USA. I see it as beauracratic attempt to close loopholes that the gun bans themselves left open, i.e., people importing guns in pieces. Anyway.... I do know - and I am a simple man ... don't 'eff with the IRS or BATF, they can ruin your life.

    When people fear their government, you have tyranny.

    carry on :)

     
  8. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    5,757
    Its all about what they (the gov) and anti gunners are able to read here. For lack of a better term, "law abiding" perception. On here Im just Mr. John Q Public just doing my civic duty and helping the man. Off a public forum/setting I have my own standards and beliefs and trust me.. The gov isn't on my good list. :) To quote Forrest Gump: "And that's all Ive got to say about that".
     
  9. Don H

    Don H Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    418
    Are stock Norinco SKS illegal to bring into the country? Or would you have to do the 922r compliance kit first?

    The reason I ask is that I work in Canada and have a place in Portland. I have my Canadian PAL licenses so can purchase Norinco SKS no problem. I know I can bring firearms to the States because I am a US citizen and have a residence in Oregon. However, I do not know if bringing the SKS with me when I come back to Oregon so I can take to a nicer range is legal. Any ideas? I don't have to bring it with me but just want to know if I can do so with out breaking any laws.

    Thanks!

    EDIT: The SKS looks like this one http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ri...-sks-sale-trade-can-e-mail-pictures-350$.html but has a stock magazine (that is also pinned to 5 because of Canadian requirements).
     
  10. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    752
    To import a firearm into the US it would have to meet the requirements set forth by the ATF, and I believe that would include Chinese made SKS rifles. I don't think you can import one into the US anymore, has to do with a "slave labor" type of silliness, if I disremember correctly....(and I readily admit I might be wrong).

    (And yes, bringing your own firearm, purchased in Canada, back into the US you would have to fill out a form. )
     
    bcdon and (deleted member) like this.
  11. Don H

    Don H Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    418
    ^ Thanks! I guess I need to make some phone calls because I know the US has the concept of "temporary import" that they apply to Canadians bringing a gun into the US to hunt. Every time I think about stuff like this my head spins and I decide it just isn't worth the hassle. Maybe someone else will chime in but I think you are right.