9/11 truth has to come out

[mjbskwim]

So, My thoughts are.... If it were an inside job, why bother with all the effort to make them fall straight down. If maximum effect were to be plotted then I think it would have been to have the falling buildings fall into even more buildings causing a domino effect or at least maximize damage by involving other buildings or falling lengthwise onto a street. Can you imagine 10 or 20,000 casualties.

Actually it is just the reverse.
Inside job wouldn't want to destroy too much more than the "white elephant" target. Then you keep some commerce going.
That's why there wasn't very many killed

The terrorist approach would have been to destroy and kill as much as possible to destroy the commerce and cripple the city
Isn't that what was said? They wanted to cripple the US economy?
Why wouldn't they have crashed them into the base of the buildings?
They would have loved to have killed 10-20k infidels,christians,Americans,non muslims

Not saying who did it,just that it was obviously a demo job.
Impossible for a swaying building that tall to fall like it did without help.

This is kinda like who killed JFK,there were plenty who would make money and get help for their cause with this event.

 

[AlphaCoyote]

I wonder what happened to the thousands of people from various governments and non-governmental entities who must have been in on the conspiracy. It's been more than a decade, and not one of them has ever come forward. Were they all executed? Was it a suicide mission for all of them from the outset? Even the non-operational support teams necessary to carry out such a job? Or just an incredibly disciplined cast of thousands? Someone in a group that size always blabs. The organizers must have known that. So did they plan from the start to kill everyone in on it? And how did they get Al Qaeda to cooperate and claim responsibility? I guess Osama bin Laden was an Israeli agent all along. Damn, he was so convincing for so many years. Did he have a book deal, and that's why the U.S. military killed him? Maybe he's still alive and working in that Burger King with Elvis and that guy behind the grassy knoll in Dallas.

We need Oliver Stone to sort this out.

 

[mjbskwim]

So, anyway, this one time, in band camp....oppss...wrong thread.

Those who believe that the building was brought down by internal demolition...who put it in there? How many of them did it take, who hired them? How did they hide all the work that would have been needed to do that? Who flew the planes? Was it remote, or did they infiltrate the terrorist cell and plan the whole thing? Who took care of the hundreds (if not thousands) of people involved? And then, who took care of the people who took care of the people? (and so on, and so on....)

See, conspiracy theory just doesn't hold water for this scenario...

Pretty weak arguments really.
There is always a lot of maintenance on buildings of this size.Lots of workers.
Workers would always change wiring in these places for new clients,not worrying what the new wiring is for.
They did shut the alarms and power off for a few weekends
You have enough different contractors doing the work and nobody really put 2+2 together.
Anybody does put things together ends up with the fishes.
Who flew the planes? Did you know they have found most every one of the people who were on the lists as terrorists on the planes? All alive in their home countries or europe?
You don't think they could find some suicide bomber to fly the plane?
Or kill the pilots family?

I'm not saying the government did this,but what I do find truly amazing is that nay sayers don't believe that the government or millions of dollars could pull this off.
That big business or the government wouldn't kill 2-3000 people to make the money that has been made in the middle east.
That the government wouldn't stage this,or look the other way, to TAKE AWAY OUR FREEDOMS.

That's the disturbing part of this argument.

 

[Addicted]

Weak, hypothetical answers to the previous "Pretty weak arguments really". I think it's sad/disturbing that you don't have enough faith or trust in your own country, that you would think our government would do such a thing. But I guess we really didn't land on the moon either!

 

[AlphaCoyote]

I can see it. A meeting at Haliburton headquarters, and Dick Cheney says: "We all want to take away American's freedoms and make a lot of money. Here's my plan. Nobody take notes, especially not you Osama."

Tower 1, Tower 2, then move on to fluoridating Portland's water. Devious and complex beyond imagination, but so stunningly brilliant.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Only for the 2% that can think for themselves. To the deluded, facts are meaningless.

All demolition companies that charge a fortune to engineer collapses after week's of design challenges, provide crews, explosives, and thermite should be out of business by now.

All you have to do is take an old retired plane and fly into into a building remotely and the building will collapse perfectly. Seriously, once you wake up to the BS, you'll wonder how you could ever be so naive.

The Oligarchs are experts regarding human weaknesses and psychology. They are aware that the vast majority will remain willfully ignorant, no matter what the evidence.

A video could be released on the net tomorrow showing the demolition charges, showing the planners plotting, you name it, and sadly it would make no difference. That is how powerful delusion is and the need to believe only things that provide comfort and support the status quo. The more you learn (talking to the 1 in 50 that CAN learn) you will see that just about everything around you is a lie.

People that cannot see truth are not dumb or stupid. Over the years, I have heard many comments about how people 'could be so stupid.' That is misguided.

Some of the most intelligent people believe the ridiculous 9/11 official story. It isn't a matter of lack of intelligence, but rather a matter of deception and manipulation. Intelligent people are just as easy to deceive in cases like these than the less capable.

That is why your average Joe can see through the BS, but often not a Steven Hawking who should know basic physics.

In layman terms, it sucks that 9/11 truth is like the whole JFK thing, Pearl, all the false flags used to start nearly all wars. The Oligarchs can always count on the 98%.

Delusion is like a drug that the majority simply cannot do without; they must believe in the false pride, comfort and safety that comes with their willful ignorance.

Consequently, and unfortunately, you can ignore reality but not the consequences of ignoring reality. Since as a nation we are corrupt to the core, our fate is sealed since all Empires eventually collapse because of same. The people you count on to protect you are the perpetrators. Eventually our Clandestine Empire will shift to a open suppressive Empire and the fact that we are all minions and slaves to the state will be apparent, but the epiphany will be too late.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

So if it was really an inside job, wouldn't all the conspiracy sites mysteriously "shut down"? Common sense dictates that the real cover ups are just that, covered up.

Think about it for a little while, perhaps the 9-11 "exposing" is really there to cover something else up. Maybe these videos are really government made to make the paranoid look to 9-11 as a hoax and not see what they are really hiding....

 

[shibbershabber]

Yup... fires from jet fuel weakened the steel at the 80th floor, which caused the entire building to collapse in 11 seconds, right.

Just like Oswald acted all by himself popping off a couple headshots from a carcano at X00 yards at a moving target... thats the official story right?

Just like the North Vietnamese attacked our ship in the Gulf of Tonkin

And that the USS Liberty was 'accidentally' blown up

Communist terrorists burned the Reichstag....

and on and on and on... People believe what they want, in the end.

Im always surprised to see how many people on the right hate the government, dont trust them to do anything... yet believe every word they say about 9/11.
Some of you say that it is scientifically proven that the official story is true... but what about the equally credentialed scientists that say that the official story is garbage?

Just like the 'official science' says that global warming is real and we cause it.... how many of you un-truthers out there believe that?

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

If you have ever been to the Dealey Plaza area, you would realize that the shot isn't that far, and wouldn't have been difficult for a trained rifleman, which Oswald was...but that is neither here nor there.

why is it that it is easier for Americans to believe a wild story that would involve thousands of people involved in a conspiracy to commit treason, maim and kill hundreds of Americans than it is to believe that we got caught with our pants down and somebody got us? Same thing with Pearl Harbor. There are all kinds of wild theories about this and that, because we find it easier than accepting we got smacked down, hard....weird....

 

[AlphaCoyote]

So anyway, this whole thread made me wonder about the latest science involving tin foil hats.

Have we decided that aluminum foil will work? Or does it have to be tin foil? I've heard aluminum foil will work, but I'm concerned this might be a planted story designed by clandestine organizations to leave me unprotected. What do those people here who constitute the uniquely informed 2% know about this? My family and I need facts, not government lies. And where better to get the straight dope about tin foil hats than from an internet gun forum?

 

[coop44]

The conspiracy theory is part of the cover up! Yeah sure.

Suprised this is still being argued. Oh well, the uneducated and moronic statements are at least entertaining.

 

[shibbershabber]

why is it that it is easier for Americans to believe a wild story that would involve thousands of people involved in a conspiracy to commit treason, maim and kill hundreds of Americans than it is to believe that we got caught with our pants down and somebody got us?

It wouldnt necessarily require thousands of people to pull of such acts. In the past we have overthrown entire governments, events which changed the course of history far greater than 9/11... all done by a handful of people, and other unwitting participants. But planning and executing these things is something that our country has had 100 years of experience in.

How many times do we need to be 'caught with our pants down' before it can be reasonalble to assume that maybe we werent really caught off guard, but rather it was perfectly planned and executed?

There is a reason that some of us find it easy to believe that elements in our own government can act this way and get it done and get away with it... because they have done it before.


Of course that is my own .02, but a little reading of history, etc and you might find that this stuff is right up our alley. And they get away with it because there is a thing called propaganda that works really well! For example, to suggest that the NVA had nothing to to with the Gulf of Tonkin Incident at the time, you would be called a commie sympathiser, un American, etc. but here we are two generations later and it is a known fact that the Vietnamese had nothing to do with it.

Things seem impossible until they happen. And in the end, the truth usually comes out. We'll see about this one.

But seriously for you unTruthers, How do you explain Building 7?

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

So anyway, this whole thread made me wonder about the latest science involving tin foil hats....

On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets:

An Empirical Study


Abstract

Among a fringe community of paranoids, aluminum helmets serve as the protective measure of choice against invasive radio signals. We investigate the efficacy of three aluminum helmet designs on a sample group of four individuals. Using a $250,000 network analyser, we find that although on average all helmets attenuate invasive radio frequencies in either directions (either emanating from an outside source, or emanating from the cranium of the subject), certain frequencies are in fact greatly amplified. These amplified frequencies coincide with radio bands reserved for government use according to the Federal Communication Commission (FCC). Statistical evidence suggests the use of helmets may in fact enhance the government's invasive abilities. We speculate that the government may in fact have started the helmet craze for this reason.
<broken link removed>

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

I forgot to add that since berkley is a gubment funded university, they might be in on the conspiracy, too...so it might not be a good study...

 

[shibbershabber]

I reject the whole tin foil hat thing... Its a cop out for people to use instead of making an argument.

They dont need any super high tech stuff to control us. The same tactics have been used for generations... all they need to do is get roughly half of the population to go along with them and the matter is instantly marginalized. As mentioned before, they could even admit to it and it wouldnt matter to most people. Yet those are the same people who feign this whole outrage at 9/11. Its much easier to focus your rage at an outside force, that can be defeated in military terms than it is to realize that the enemy is within and you are powerless to stop them.

But our attention span is very short, and nothing will last long enough in the minds of a majority to get anything done about it. There is always that part of society that remembers atrocities committed in our name, but we are quickly categorized and marginalized. Torture, false flag attacks, overthrowing democratically elected leaders, burying civilians in mass graves, etc. our government does these things overseas and we are outraged for about a week. The reality in this country is that unless someone in your immediate family is harmed or killed, you dont care very long.

Ill admit that I dont really care about the people that died in 9/11. I dont know them, and yeah its sad for their families but in the big scheme of things my life will go on unaffected by their death. What bothers me about it is how IMO we allowed it to happen, and then capitalized on it by destroying the WTC complex. It was a means to an end... an end that I dont like.
Some of you may like it. Some of you are okay with the interests of powerful gourps and corporations swaying foreign and domestic policy. You were probably okay with hundreds of thousands of civilians being tortured and killed so that United Fruit Co. could continue to control the affairs of the countries in which they operated... afterall, when people in the thrid world aspired to have a standard of living equal to ours at the expense of big business' profits... that was communism and we had to spend billions of tax dollars to sponsor death squads and propaganda campaigns.

As Gramma used to say, 'aint nothing new under the sun'


But Im sure that you unTruthers really believe that muslim terrorists devised this plan in a cave on the other side of the world and executed this attack on America because they hate our freedoms. Oh yeah, I bet you guys were all clammoring about Iraqs involvment in islamic terrorist groups as well. Give me a break


Id rather have a tinfoil hat on than blinders.

 

[Kevatc]

When we get this 9/11 thing figured out, I want to move on to the Grand Canyon. Mainstream geologists apparently have a "theory" that it was carved out by hundreds of millions of years of this thing they call "erosion." But I've been reading up on this on the internet, watched a YouTube documentary, and it turns out that this was the work of elves from space with pickaxes and shovels on the payroll of King Ur Engur of Ur and the ancient Israelites, who paid the elves in silver. I called Popular Geology to get them to run a story about this coverup, and they wouldn't. Of course, they have government employees who are subscribers, so why would they? Once again the MSM stifles the truth!

You are partially correct. Elves did help but the idea of picks and axes is riduclous knowing they were using D9 Cats and limited radius thermonuclear earth excavation without groundwater polution techniques other wise known by the acronym D9LRTEEWGH20PT. Everyone knows about this. Tsk tsk.

 

[shibbershabber]

Yes, I love how some of you continue to prove my points...

Instead of showing studies that debunk the science of those on the truthers' side, you make stupid jokes about elves carving canyons and idiots in foil hats.....

Or even make an argument in your favor that is genuine instead of parroting the same old crap. Why do you believe the official story? Why do you think that the collapse of Bldg 7 is irrelevant?

You people would be making fun of me just as hard 12 years ago if I had suggested that burning jet fuel could cause a 110 floor building to collapse at freefall speed. But now that you are being told to believe it... you do.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Just provide actual proof that something other than the story the .gov puts out happened. Not some "might of, could have, this one guy said" kind of stuff. Actual proof that will hold up in court, you know, the kind that our legal system would need.

Is it really easier for you to believe that your government is evil that it is to believe that the people who said they did it, really did?

I am so glad I don't live in your world. Although I don't believe a lot of what the .gov says, in this case, as in several others, sometimes stuff happens and it isn't a conspiracy

 

[shibbershabber]

Well first of all I wasnt suggesting that any of us on here could 'prove' anything, because we cant.

What I am forming my argument on is the statements of scientists and engineers, witnesses and first responders... who all have given reports that contradict the official story. Im basing it on understanding the history and politics of incidents like this. Ive formed my opinion on many different factors, but it is just that... an opinion which is all any of us have. But I think that a very compelling argument can be made in favor of something happening other than jet fuel (which burns off pretty fast) and office supplies combining to create a fire that can melt steel hundreds of feet BELOW the fire to the point that it allows the entire building to disappear in 11 seconds.

On the other side is a handful of scientists, engineers and government officials who have come together to give you the story that you believe today. My problem is that they are giving you this story without really explaining some of the more troubling details. Building 7 being the biggest elephant in the room... that their official report doesnt even mention! Doesnt that bother any of you?
A building twice the size of our US Bankcorp tower (in Portland) has a fire on 1 or 2 floors... WASNT hit by a plane and then it suddenly collapses in the same manner and at the same speed as the 2 main towers? And no one wants to talk about it? Seriously? Are you guys really okay with that?

And then, add to that the arguments that we hear from groups claiming to back up the official story... but thats all they do, just reinforce the official report. I have yet to see anyone come out with a counter argument to the truthers' assertions.
Get a hold of some debris, as the truthers have done, test it and prove that there wasnt thermite present. Explain away our concerns regarding the gaps in the story and maybe we'll shut up about it... but no one has done that.

I dont believe it. And I dont really hate the government either... but I just dont buy their story on this, I didnt believe it the day I saw the towers go down, I didnt believe the Bush administration, I dont believe the Obama administration, etc. Not that anyone owes me an explanation personally. But if you expect the American people to accept this swiss cheese story thats been put out, BS, we are owed a full investigation.

Especially since it was a pretext to entering into two wars that have cost us hundreds of billions of dollars, thousands of US troops killed, tens of thousands of them have been permanantly disabled... and for what?

Finally we are out of Iraq... but we are still engaged in the longest war in history in Afghanistan... that is costing taxpayers 2 BILLION dollars per week, 800 MILLION of which is BORROWED. Is it worth it?

Our experience over there is not all that different than that of the USSR. Read about it. And read about our involvment in that war, then read about the buildup to our current war there. Its all BS. But we have been sold a bill of goods on these two wars and it all stems from 9/11.

but then again I am just a lefty Socialist guy who thinks and reads too much

 

[JackThompson]

That's exactly how I feel.

I'm not a scientist, but there are thousands of scientists and engineers and even architects that give compelling and comprehensive reasons why the official story isn't accurate.

Basic police training teaches them how to "Read" people. How to tell if someone is lying or hiding something. Even when they say "I didn't rob the bank" you can tell when the story doesn't wash.

This story doesn't wash.