7.7x58 Japanese for the Type 99 Arisaka

[CLT65]

Arisaka chambers were commonly very loose, as they were expected to function in some pretty bad environments.

As to safe, unless you got a drill/training rifle, they have a pretty good reputation. As I mentioned in another thread, a number of WWII military rifles were tested to destruction after the war, and the story is that the Arisaka handled loads that blew other guns to pieces.

They were some of the cheapest surplus guns back in the day, much like the other "odd balls", the Carcanos and Mosins. They were seen as clunky and hard to find ammo for. The Mosin exploded in popularity when the iron curtain fell and boatloads of rifles and ammo came into the country, but it's only been in more recent years that the Arisaka has come into it's own as collectible.

 

[arakboss]

Arisaka chambers were commonly very loose, as they were expected to function in some pretty bad environments.

As to safe, unless you got a drill/training rifle, they have a pretty good reputation. As I mentioned in another thread, a number of WWII military rifles were tested to destruction after the war, and the story is that the Arisaka handled loads that blew other guns to pieces.

They were some of the cheapest surplus guns back in the day, much like the other "odd balls", the Carcanos and Mosins. They were seen as clunky and hard to find ammo for. The Mosin exploded in popularity when the iron curtain fell and boatloads of rifles and ammo came into the country, but it's only been in more recent years that the Arisaka has come into it's own as collectible.

These guys tested the strength of the rifle in this video, it is one tough rifle:

 

[ACO]

Arisakas havebone of the strongest actions of all. They have done a lot of tests trying to intentionally blow them up and failed.

 

[Aero Denezol]

Thanks all for the replies. I'll get a picture of mine up here soon.. It is a Nagoya Series 2, 1942. It has the aircraft sights and the monopod, but it does not have the dust cover. The bore and bolt face are chrome lined. The action is cock-on-close, like an Enfield. Regrettably the Mum is ground off, but the bluing is otherwise beautiful. The stock is pretty well dinged up and the ears are a little bent. I was told the front sight is staked and not adjustable.

 

[CV-66]

Sorry, forgot to mention, it converted it to 7.62x39, and was secured in the chamber with loctite.

Are you saying you had your arisaka rechambered for 762x39 or had a chamber insert installed using some loktite to keep it in place? USN did that with some Garands early on so they could shoot 762NATO in them.

 

[BoringCruffler]

@Aero Denezol , even before @ACO 's post, I was also going to mention that these rifles are very easy to get chamber adapters made up for, so you can shoot something else in it, but not 'bubba' it.

My uncle has one that has an adapter for .300 Savage in it. He had it done by a 'smith in Alaska in the late 60s when a $30 rifle was all he could afford. 53 years later, it still works great.

Yes, I'm aware of the difference in Bore diameter, and it won't be a tack-driver with .308 bullets, but they definitely stabilize just fine, and there are were at least 20 deer and a dozen Caribou in Alaska and Washington that couldn't tell the difference.

I've probably put sixty rounds through it personally. I hope to inherit it one day.

 

[gmerkt]

I had a very late war 7.7 in the middle 1970's, the only factory ammo at that time was Norma which was expensive. Around 2000 or a bit later, Privi Partizan in Serbia started making it. It's still available, here's a link to the current offering:

The Reloading Authority - Graf & Sons

Graf & Sons, the reloading authority, has a wide selection of reloading supplies, shooting supplies, ammo and more.

www.grafs.com

I think OP won't have much choice but to pay shipping for 7.7. Not many stores see enough demand to stock it.

Yes, 7.7 cases can be made from .30-06 without too much difficulty. You can do it with just the sizing die that comes with a 2 die set of reloading dies. Or you can buy newly made cases from Graf and Sons. I think those come from Serbia also. Norma still makes ammo for it, it's still expensive. Way more than Privi Partizan.

If you think this stuff is hard to find and expensive now, wait a while. It will get harder to find and more expensive as time goes by. Nobody is making rifles in 7.7 anymore, therefore demand will continue to diminish.

The late war 7.7 I had was fixed peep sight, wooden butt plate, three digit serial number. When production had been scattered all around and many makers were doing them. I won't say it was in mint condition but I don't think it had ever been fired. I had no issues with it. I got ahold of one of the 7.7 Lee loaders, reloaded some of my precious Norma brass with DuPont 4064 and Hornady .311 bullets. Didn't use it a lot but had it to use.

 

[ma96782]

Interesting that ACO mentioned the chamber insert using the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge. I saw a guy offering various inserts at one of the last gun shows that I attended. But, I doubt that he had one for 7.7 Japanese at the show.

That being said.....
Yes, chamber inserts have been tried by the US military with .30-06 chambered M1 Garands using 7.62 x 51 NATO ammo. The military had problems with the ejection of the chamber insert on occasions. Yeah....IMHO, it's just better to have a dedicated rifle barrel.....if you can afford it.

But note.....
That the ejection cycle on a M1 rifle is violent compared to a bolt action.
Then, the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge (max about 45,010 psi) is developing a heck of a lot less pressure vs. a 7.62 x 51 NATO cartridge (max about 60,191 psi).
And, both the 7.7 Japanese and 7.62 x 39 mm use the same diameter bullet (0.311"), that's a good thing.
Cases....yup, steel vs brass cartridges in 7.62 x 39mm? I'd go with the brass. And hope for better extraction and ejection. As for the bulged steel cases. Who cares? I'm not gonna reload steel cases. So, I might just use steel cased ammo because I'm lazy.

Bottom Line......
IMHO, I'd be willing to try the chamber insert.
IF....I couldn't find the proper 7.7 Japanese ammo, didn't wish to re-barrel (or re-chamber) my rifle or if I didn't want to start reloading. Not to mention, re-sizing .30-06 cases to 7.7 Japanese. As a good press is required, perhaps annealing of the brass and maybe even neck thinning.
Hummm.....anyway a 7.62 x 39mm would be "softer shooting".

Aloha, Mark

PS....I think that I might have seen a chamber insert to convert 7.62 x 54r for use with .32 ACP.

 

[ACO]

Yeah, I got the chamber adapter from the guy in Alaska. It was 50/50 then if he was even alive still, let alone in business. I went with x39 because it was a good fit and cheap. Wasnt planning to do more than plunk once inactive while. Mine is a pretty complete T99 with all the bells and whistles still f2f. I converted the box magazine as well so that I can load it with 5rnds. Overall, the only drawback is the bulges in the cases kind of make it lock up.

 

[ma96782]

Humm.....tips on using a conversion.

7.62x54r to .32 ACP Chamber Insert - Uses and Review (.303 to 7.62x25 added)

Aloha, Mark

PS......

 

[Ownerus]

If 7.7Arisaka is too hard to come by, you could make a chamber adapter for 7.62 x 45. That way the availability of 7.7 won't look so bad.

Sorta like hitting your thumb with a hammer to cure a headache.

 

[CLT65]

Here's some surplus Japanese WWII ammo I've accumulated. There are a couple AP rounds in there, not terribly common, and some of it is semi-rimmed MG ammo. A couple of the 6.5 rounds are WWI era RN, one is Kynoch.



Here is what I actually shoot. It's WWII USGI 30-06 brass reformed and annealed. I've never found the need to ream necks on this caliber.

 

[DunRanull]

Interesting that ACO mentioned the chamber insert using the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge. I saw a guy offering various inserts at one of the last gun shows that I attended. But, I doubt that he had one for 7.7 Japanese at the show.

That being said.....
Yes, chamber inserts have been tried by the US military with .30-06 chambered M1 Garands using 7.62 x 51 NATO ammo. The military had problems with the ejection of the chamber insert on occasions. Yeah....IMHO, it's just better to have a dedicated rifle barrel.....if you can afford it.

But note.....
That the ejection cycle on a M1 rifle is violent compared to a bolt action.
Then, the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge (max about 45,010 psi) is developing a heck of a lot less pressure vs. a 7.62 x 51 NATO cartridge (max about 60,191 psi).
And, both the 7.7 Japanese and 7.62 x 39 mm use the same diameter bullet (0.311"), that's a good thing.
Cases....yup, steel vs brass cartridges in 7.62 x 39mm? I'd go with the brass. And hope for better extraction and ejection. As for the bulged steel cases. Who cares? I'm not gonna reload steel cases. So, I might just use steel cased ammo because I'm lazy.

Bottom Line......
IMHO, I'd be willing to try the chamber insert.
IF....I couldn't find the proper 7.7 Japanese ammo, didn't wish to re-barrel (or re-chamber) my rifle or if I didn't want to start reloading. Not to mention, re-sizing .30-06 cases to 7.7 Japanese. As a good press is required, perhaps annealing of the brass and maybe even neck thinning.
Hummm.....anyway a 7.62 x 39mm would be "softer shooting".

Aloha, Mark

PS....I think that I might have seen a chamber insert to convert 7.62 x 54r for use with .32 ACP.

I used a .30-06 to .308 insert in a Garand rifle. Insert came with instructions to use blu-loktite to seat the inset securely. This worked with no issues with buku 7.62X51 milsurp and a few commercial 150 gr loads (just to see). No problem, and the set-up was working fine when I finally (and stupidly, really) sold the rifle off...

 

[arakboss]

All this talk of bulging brass in the type 99s made me wonder if my bubba'd rifle could have been rechambered in 30-06 and not marked as such on the rifle. I am going to dig mine out of the safe this morning and try to chamber a 30-06 case. Since the 30-06 case is around 5mm longer than the 7.7x58 case the bolt should not close on the 30-06 case. If the bolt does close on 30-06 case, I can assume that rifle has been rechambered to 30-06 or something is seriously wrong with the chamber.

Edit: I checked my rifle this morning and it's definitely not chambered in 30-06, it probably just has a loose chamber.

 

[Phantom Man]

Due to the cost of 7.7, and my inability to get into reloading, I did this in 2012... but have had some bizarre bulging in the spent shells, so I dont use it too much. Requires a lot of force to get it to cycle.View attachment 692844View attachment 692845View attachment 692846View attachment 692847

The Japanese made their Arisaka chambers extremely loose so they could run dirty. I would suggest PPU brass over Norma for reloading. The receivers and barrels are extremely strong so they can handle overpressured loads but for peace of mind wonky spent cases are a bit disturbing.

 

[Deavis]

I bought a set of used 7.7 dies for way less than the cost of a box of factory 7.7 ammo.

I scrounged up a whopping 88 casings which is plenty for my needs and pulled some ugly corrosive 762x54 bullets and now shoot it on the cheap.

 

[DunRanull]

I bought a set of used 7.7 dies for way less than the cost of a box of factory 7.7 ammo.

I scrounged up a whopping 88 casings which is plenty for my needs and pulled some ugly corrosive 762x54 bullets and now shoot it on the cheap.

The 7.7 Jap is a copy of the Brit .303, and bullets for this round are larger than .30 cal. Bullets like the 7.62X39, 7.62X54r, and .303 Brit, and 7.7 Arisaka are all .311-.312 and all the same size, larger than .30 cal which is undersized for the Arisaka. All three can be loaded into the 7.7.. I ran into this when first reloading for the .303 Brit..
The 7.7Jap is a copy of the .303 Brit EXCEPT it is RIMLESS, not rimmed like the .303 Brit. A powerful and useful round, just hard to find ammo for, and expensive unless you reload. The action of the Arisaka rifle is extremely strong. (Wish I had one!!)

 

[Phantom Man]

The 7.7 Jap is a copy of the Brit .303, and bullets for this round are larger than .30 cal. Bullets like the 7.62X39, 7.62X54r, and .303 Brit, and 7.7 Arisaka are all .311-.312 and all the same size, larger than .30 cal and undersized for the Arisaka. All three can be loaded into the 7.7.. I ran into this when first reloading for the .303 Brit..
The 7.7Jap is a copy of the .303 Brit EXCEPT it is RIMLESS, not rimmed like the .303 Brit. A powerful and useful round, just hard to find ammo for, and expensive unless you reload. The action of the Arisaka rifle is extremely strong. (Wish I had one!!)
Spot on Dun. I have been telling people the exact same thing about the Arisaka 7.7 cartridge.

 

[Deavis]

The 7.7 Jap is a copy of the Brit .303, and bullets for this round are larger than .30 cal. Bullets like the 7.62X39, 7.62X54r, and .303 Brit, and 7.7 Arisaka are all .311-.312 and all the same size, larger than .30 cal which is undersized for the Arisaka. All three can be loaded into the 7.7.. I ran into this when first reloading for the .303 Brit..
The 7.7Jap is a copy of the .303 Brit EXCEPT it is RIMLESS, not rimmed like the .303 Brit. A powerful and useful round, just hard to find ammo for, and expensive unless you reload. The action of the Arisaka rifle is extremely strong. (Wish I had one!!)

I have an extra sporter with 20" barrel threaded 1/2 x 28 cheap if you want it.

 

[Sixsa]

Steinel Ammunition makes 7.7 Jap still. It's expensive, but probably one of the guaranteed places to find it in stock for factory.