7.7x58 Japanese for the Type 99 Arisaka

[Aero Denezol]

Steinel Ammunition makes 7.7 Jap still. It's expensive, but probably one of the guaranteed places to find it in stock for factory.

He offers a 150gr reduced power load that has very similar ballistics to the 174gr original. I thought that was interesting.

 

[Ownerus]

While muddling about my loading bench last night I compared a 7.7 with a .303 Brit. The position and shape of the shoulder is enough different I would scarcely call it a rimless copy of the .303.
I didn't think to compare it with 8mm Mauser but from memory one could just as "accurately" call 7.7 a necked down 8mm Mauser.

 

[Phantom Man]

While muddling about my loading bench last night I compared a 7.7 with a .303 Brit. The position and shape of the shoulder is enough different I would scarcely call it a rimless copy of the .303.
I didn't think to compare it with 8mm Mauser but from memory one could just as "accurately" call 7.7 a necked down 8mm Mauser.

Yes, I consider it a rimless 3O3 in performance not looks. We were talking about the round's performance.

 

[Phantom Man]

That Arisaka is a fascinating gun. And the stories I've got from collectors at the OAC show and the presence, or not, of the um is fascinating. After reading threads like this I'm thinking it's not something I would buy at this point. I need MY collection to be safe and functional.

M99's shoot much like a Lee Enfield MK 1. Very pleasant. Triggers can be very rough though and make sure the chrome lining is not cracked.

 

[skikir]

I probably saved more money reloading than not. Buying 7.5x54 French, 8X56R Hungarian, 7.7x58 Japanese, 6.5x50 Japanese, 7.92x57 Mauser, 7.62x25 Tok, 303 Brit, 30.06, M1 Carbine, 38 S&W (Victory), 38 Special, 6.5 Carcano, 7.5x55 Swiss was expensive if it could be found. 7.7 Jap is an easy round to make using 30.06 brass and .303 British bullets.

 

[skikir]

That Arisaka is a fascinating gun. And the stories I've got from collectors at the OAC show and the presence, or not, of the um is fascinating. After reading threads like this I'm thinking it's not something I would buy at this point. I need MY collection to be safe and functional.

This is incredibly Wrong. The Arisaka is one of the most strong actions you can get. American Rifleman and the May 1959 issue has an article in the Dope Bag section about a guy who brought his Type 38 into a gunsmith because it kicked so hard. It seems the guy had run a 30-06 reamer with a ground down pilot into the chamber so it could use readily available 30-06 ammo. The guy thought he had the 7.7mm Type 99. This guy shot regular 30-06 ammo with a .30 caliber (7.62mm)bullet through a 6.5mm barrel!!!! He even killed a deer with it. When the gunsmith discovered what had been done he sent the rifle and the fired cartridges to the NRA for testing. The NRA staff then proceeded to fire various .30 caliber bullets into oiled sawdust to recover the bullets. The bullets had been swaged down to 6.5mm but the headspace on the Type 38 had remained in spec and there was no sign of cracking or stress to the receiver or the bolt! Nearly every other military bolt action would have blown up with the kind of pressures the Type 38 took in stride!

 

[Phantom Man]

I probably saved more money reloading than not. Buying 7.5x54 French, 8X56R Hungarian, 7.7x58 Japanese, 6.5x50 Japanese, 7.92x57 Mauser, 7.62x25 Tok, 303 Brit, 30.06, M1 Carbine, 38 S&W (Victory), 38 Special, 6.5 Carcano, 7.5x55 Swiss was expensive if it could be found. 7.7 Jap is an easy round to make using 30.06 brass and .303 British bullets.

Why not buy readily available brass made by PPU? And yes .311 bullets are widely available as well

 

[WAW44]

30_06 to 7.7 Jap.

How to make your own 7.7 Jap rifle ammo

This article should be of interest to certain historical rifle shooters. It covers how to make ammunition for the World War Two Japanese rif...

lagniappeslair.blogspot.com

Forming brass for the 7.7 Jap

I have a couple of Type 99s and decided that I would like to shoot them a little so I formed some brass. I run 30-06 brass through a 7.7 Jap FL sizing die and cut about a quarter inch off and trim. I used bullets I pulled from 7.62x54r. 30-06, 30-06 squeezed through 7.7 die, 30-06 squeezed...

www.milsurps.com

Seems like a lot of work. I have 250 rounds of 7.7 Jap and that should last me a while.

 

[WAW44]

Also, SG ammo has some

20 Round Box - 7.7 Jap 174 Grain SP Norma Professional Hunter Ammo | SGAmmo.com

20 Round Box of 7.7 Jap 174 Grain SP Norma Professional Hunter Ammo For Sale2493 FPS

www.sgammo.com

And brass here

NORMA 7.7x58mm JAPANESE UNPRIMED BRASS 20 PIECES

We have the NORMA 7.7 JAP brass you are looking for, IN STOCK AND READY TO SHIP!

www.308ammo.com

 

[Phantom Man]

Also, SG ammo has some

20 Round Box - 7.7 Jap 174 Grain SP Norma Professional Hunter Ammo | SGAmmo.com

20 Round Box of 7.7 Jap 174 Grain SP Norma Professional Hunter Ammo For Sale2493 FPS

www.sgammo.com

And brass here

NORMA 7.7x58mm JAPANESE UNPRIMED BRASS 20 PIECES

We have the NORMA 7.7 JAP brass you are looking for, IN STOCK AND READY TO SHIP!

www.308ammo.com

That Norma ammo would be a way to accumulate quality brass.

 

[arakboss]

Does anybody know if 7.7x58 factory loaded ammo is available at a retailer in Salem/Portland/Eugene?

It's expensive, and I'd rather not pay for shipping. I don't reload, and don't plan to. I already very lucky the boss lady lets me spend as much time as I do shooting.

Did you ever find 7.7 ammo?

 

[Aero Denezol]

Did you ever find 7.7 ammo?

I did not. I wound up selling my Arisaka to another forum member. He has at least three of them and he also reloads. So, I'm glad she found a good home.

 

[RendabML]

Just for those who are still interested, the pre-War and early War Arisakas are excellent rifles and great fun to shoot. I have several, two of the 7.7s are in full military trim and the rest ( a mix of 7.7s and 6.5s) are just "Bubba Beanshooter Specials". Still hoping to find the right complete 6.5 in military trim.

The 7.7s are easily serviced and fed with excellent brass from PPU. It works well and you can get a really nice 2500-2600 fps 150 grain shooter's load out of it that you can shoot all day without discomfort.

For my 6.5s, after looking at all of the options and reading much, I decided to skip buying modern 6.5 brass for it because I heard so many people complaining about case stretch and only getting about four reloads out of new cases. Looking around for an alternative I chose the 35 Remington case. They proved to be very easy to resize to 6.5 Jap dimensions and I have shot and reloaded them many times with no real damage to the cases. The neck support is a few thousandths shorter but they work well in my 6.5s, of which I have several from different manufacturing times.

Also, I have heard and read the statements about the Japanese making their rifle chambers very loose. I am not sure that I buy that as factual. The Japanese were and still are excellent craftsmen and machinists and those pre-War and early War rifles are very well designed and made. Later in the War things are a different story for obvious reasons. But the pre-42 or pre-43 rifles are great rifles. They are simply different than the German rifles and as such I think they get some prejudiced reviews.

I did find one web story where a person stated that the perception of "loose chambers" in the 7.7s could be attributed to a mismeasurement by Norma right after the War when it first spec's out its early brass offering. He said they measured things and set the stage and the standard for everything to be a few thousandths undersized for Jap 7.7s ever since. The PPU brass may correct this. Mine has beem shot and reloaded several times with no stretch or ill effects.

My thoughts...

 

[Phantom Man]

Just for those who are still interested, the pre-War and early War Arisakas are excellent rifles and great fun to shoot. I have several, two of the 7.7s are in full military trim and the rest ( a mix of 7.7s and 6.5s) are just "Bubba Beanshooter Specials". Still hoping to find the right complete 6.5 in military trim.

The 7.7s are easily serviced and fed with excellent brass from PPU. It works well and you can get a really nice 2500-2600 fps 150 grain shooter's load out of it that you can shoot all day without discomfort.

For my 6.5s, after looking at all of the options and reading much, I decided to skip buying modern 6.5 brass for it because I heard so many people complaining about case stretch and only getting about four reloads out of new cases. Looking around for an alternative I chose the 35 Remington case. They proved to be very easy to resize to 6.5 Jap dimensions and I have shot and reloaded them many times with no real damage to the cases. The neck support is a few thousandths shorter but they work well in my 6.5s, of which I have several from different manufacturing times.

Also, I have heard and read the statements about the Japanese making their rifle chambers very loose. I am not sure that I buy that as factual. The Japanese were and still are excellent craftsmen and machinists and those pre-War and early War rifles are very well designed and made. Later in the War things are a different story for obvious reasons. But the pre-42 or pre-43 rifles are great rifles. They are simply different than the German rifles and as such I think they get some prejudiced reviews.

I did find one web story where a person stated that the perception of "loose chambers" in the 7.7s could be attributed to a mismeasurement by Norma right after the War when it first spec's out its early brass offering. He said they measured things and set the stage and the standard for everything to be a few thousandths undersized for Jap 7.7s ever since. The PPU brass may correct this. Mine has beem shot and reloaded several times with no stretch or ill effects.
My thoughts...

I believe the Japanese factored in dirty conditions and dirty chambers in their production along with chromed barrels. Fireforming the brass should solve some problems for those who are concerned. The Japanese tried to re-create British performance and recoil with a rimless cartridge and did a good job of doing it.