6.5 PRC fail on elk.

[fredoesway]

Took my Elk in AZ with my .270 Nozzler Partition bullet one shot at about 150yds don't recall the bullet weight but I think it was the heaviest they made back in the late 1980's, I waited a while after he walked into the thick timber, then followed him and found where he had gone down and left a lot of blood, I took a few steps and caught movement from the corner of my eye. I stopped and watched him go down, he would sag then jerk his head back up, but every time he sank deeper, shortly he didn't come up any more. I didn't want to shoot again because he was behind a large log and only his head and neck showing and I didn't want to frighten him into running so I just quietly watched him die, He scored over 300 and has a prominent place in my home. I look at "Alpha" nearly every time I'm in the living room where his mount overlooks everything he is a beautiful 6 by 6!
There is more to the story but I've hijacked this thread long enough.
Damn good eating too, beats beef for sure!
Gabby

Gabby ROCKS my favorite old western movie sidekick

 

[Spitpatch]

When I stated "sometimes it just happens that way" I was responding to this post, see below. The person stated they could see the head bob up and down, they wanted to take another shot, but they did not because I am assuming they did not want the animal to get up and run making things worse. I have been there. It seems they put a good hit on the animal, but when you double lung or even hart shoot an animal sometimes they do not expire right away and that is all you can do, is watch them expire. I do not prefer body shots for that reason but that is just me. My skin is thick, so I don't bother easily or take offense. We are here to have good conversation, debate, share our experiences learn something or maybe teach something. If I like what I read, I post I like it. It doesn't matter to me who posts it or even if they don't agree with me or I with them.

"I took a few steps and caught movement from the corner of my eye. I stopped and watched him go down, he would sag then jerk his head back up, but every time he sank deeper, shortly he didn't come up any more. I didn't want to shoot again because he was behind a large log and only his head and neck showing and I didn't want to frighten him into running so I just quietly watched him die,"

Yes. And I was behind you all the way.

 

[BillGabby1]

Gabby ROCKS my favorite old western movie sidekick

Mine too!

 

[Spitpatch]

I'm surprised no one took the bait I dangled on Winchester's "SECRET" method of appropriating a component of the Weatherby system while avoiding a potential lawsuit. I figured @264Winmag would pipe up with this nugget of 6.5 history.

An essential ingredient of the Weatherby system for velocity enhancement over other cartridges is the concept of "freebore", which is allowing the bullet to travel a bit before engaging the rifling, thus reducing pressure as compared to an identical arrangement without freebore.

When the .264 Winchester made its debut, of course everyone ran to their reloading benches, and immediately discovered that the velocities they could safely attain had no relation to what Winchester claimed (even more of a disparity from factory claims than is usually seen).

With the Ruger 77 .264 previously mentioned, we ran into the same wall. It had plenty of barrel length, but top end velocities looked more like a .270 Winchester. While at a local gunshop, I discussed this with the proprietor who built custom guns with his father of famous reputation back in the day, and is also a .264 fan.

He solved the mystery for us: Rather than extend the throat of the chamber (as was Weatherby's approach to freebore for velocity), Winchester took an entirely different route:

Cartridges in Winchester factory ammunition of the day were loaded with bullets of "Dual Diameter". These bullets did not achieve .264 diameter on their body at the normal location of ogive. Such happened farther back. Freebore achieved, along with stellar velocities..

The gunsmith was only too happy to open the throat on the 77 (something he'd done on .264's for quite some time). The Ruger then became an honest "Westerner".

 

[264Winmag]

That's true they had a duel caliber bullet for the 264. And the original model 70 had short throats. When I purchased my first one years ago, I realized that I had to seat the normal bullet deeper. So then, I started by first picking what bullet I wanted to shoot and match my free bore to the overall cartridge length so I can get more powder in and achieve the velocity as advertised and then some. Savage in the early 60s realize this and when heart was making Barrels for them their free bore was already lengthened. Reading Winchesters engineering behind the 264 Mag, was quite an undertaking for the day. when Winchester and Remington used to come out with the Duel caliber bullets for the 264, I would buy some I didn't care for them much but man you can get some serious speed out of those. Accuracy not so much. I myself have only purchased three factory to 264 in my Life and since I'm left-handed I got in to building my own rifles. The first custom rifle I built for myself actually was on a Ruger M77 300 magnum action and the rest is history. I've had Shillen, Mcgrown and Krieger barrels. At first they would send me a blank and I could spin it down now it's just cheaper now days to get a pre thread and cut the shoulder down. I had a couple left hand model 70 actions those are my favorite. I want a total of eight actions and I burnt out about 16 barrels. But the 264 never was a barrel burner as Hornady claimed and you're starting to see a lot of good publicized authors saying that. If you're smoking them you'll get about 1200 rounds out of a barrel. Doesn't matter if it's stainless or carbon.

264 just was one of those cartridges that was too good for its time. It's smoked the 270. Winchester even had to under load it from 3200 ft./s to 3030 feet per second because people were complaining of too much meat damage that occurred around 1960-61. This caused even more diminished to the cartridge because people were saying they weren't getting advertise velocities. Hornady who learned from Speer, Before he went into his own bullet making business was not going to ruffle feathers because Speer and O'Connor we're good friends. But once Hornady went on his own, you can clearly see in his reloading manuals one and two the 264 does do 3200 ft./s and more. And then if you look at the new Hornady reloading books published recently to make Hornady's cartridges look better, they had the 264 when Mag, barely doing 3000 feet a second. Sad.

 

[robmill70]

Weather conditions and some adrenaline most likely caused it. Punching paper at 600 yds doesn't have the same effect on the body as staring at a big bull through the scope. It was likely a misplaced shot, it happens to us all. 6.5 is plenty for elk, the Scandinavians have been killing moose for 130+ years with it. There will always be an argument about what the best caliber is, you got guys that think they can kill elephants with 223 and others that think they need a 50 cal to hunt blacktail. Placement is crucial, all hunters know that but we have to be honest with our own abilities and the capabilities of the rifle. just my 2 cents

 

[82Cadi]

I am developing loads for a 300PRC right now because I chose it over a 6.5PRC. You can kill an elk with 1911 pistol I suppose but it doesn't make it a good tool for the job but I'm not a fan of ever being under gunned. I will always choose wasting 3 or 4 lbs of meat to deliver a clean kill where an animal doesn't suffer. While I've lost an animal before and understand how sickening that experience is, I'm much more concerned about how much that animal suffers.

I am personally not a fan of light hot loads on big animals and no matter how heavy you go in a 6.5PRC bullet, that's exactly what it is. I'm also somewhat judgmental about what is an ethical hunting distance…

So… sure, I'd use a 6.5PRC as a mule deer gun but not for a large bodied bull elk. Sure, it will kill one, probably most every time with a well placed shot. Seriously though, why err to the light side if you're planning on taking these super long shots where there are so many variables that could lead to this exact outcome?

For reference, I once took a large Rosevelt cow with a heavy 7mm REM Mag at 150yds. Shot through both lungs and a small portion of the heart with a very well placed vitals shot. She went nearly 100 yards and I was sick over that. I don't know why she could go so far but she did and that load was not lacking at all.

I truly hope the "Light and Fast" trend goes away. Clearly egos are going to push what some believe an ethical range is so that's not likely to change.

82Cadi

 

[BillGabby1]

Sometimes it just happens that way. A 270 stoked with a 160 grain partition is good combination.

Yep he only walked about 40 or 50 yards never ran, then he bled out right there. I took him with a quartering shot, just behind the right shoulder, and I found the bullet just under the skin on his left flank. I'm guestimating the bullet traveled a good 4 ft or a little more through his body. I couldn't praise Nosler enough. We ended up with over 375 pounds of meat for the table and lots of stuff ground up for the dogs, I have the mount of my 6X6 bull in the living room where I give him a pat now and then he is a beauty!

what was more fun was popping prairie dogs with some special loads I bought that were 100 grain, soft points, I didn't do any reloading for the 270, no dies. Turned those puppies inside out like a sock, nothing left but the hides, the AZ ranchers were happy to see them go!

 

[BillGabby1]

I am developing loads for a 300PRC right now because I chose it over a 6.5PRC. You can kill an elk with 1911 pistol I suppose but it doesn't make it a good tool for the job but I'm not a fan of ever being under gunned. I will always choose wasting 3 or 4 lbs of meat to deliver a clean kill where an animal doesn't suffer. While I've lost an animal before and understand how sickening that experience is, I'm much more concerned about how much that animal suffers.

I am personally not a fan of light hot loads on big animals and no matter how heavy you go in a 6.5PRC bullet, that's exactly what it is. I'm also somewhat judgmental about what is an ethical hunting distance…

So… sure, I'd use a 6.5PRC as a mule deer gun but not for a large bodied bull elk. Sure, it will kill one, probably most every time with a well placed shot. Seriously though, why err to the light side if you're planning on taking these super long shots where there are so many variables that could lead to this exact outcome?

For reference, I once took a large Rosevelt cow with a heavy 7mm REM Mag at 150yds. Shot through both lungs and a small portion of the heart with a very well placed vitals shot. She went nearly 100 yards and I was sick over that. I don't know why she could go so far but she did and that load was not lacking at all.

I truly hope the "Light and Fast" trend goes away. Clearly egos are going to push what some believe an ethical range is so that's not likely to change.

82Cadi

She was running on adrenalin, deer have been known to run nearly a mile heart shot on adrenalin.

 

[coop44]

If it didnt stay down he didnt hit a vital.

Theres a dozen variables that will always be different in the field than at the range. This trend of new fancy "long distance" calibers and long distance shots is concerning.

Yes it is, personally I don't define hunting as taking game at a distance, that is something else. Hunting to me involves stalking and stealth challenging oneself to get as close as possible to ensure a clean and definitive kill.

 

[BillGabby1]

Gabby ROCKS my favorite old western movie sidekick

Yepper mine too, and I even resemble him a little. AND I do gab a bit now and then. LOL
I like this little feller with the Saguaro cactus and the tumbleweed reminds me of home I lived most of my life in AZ, and I get home sick at times.

 

[264Winmag]

Yep he only walked about 40 or 50 yards never ran, then he bled out right there. I took him with a quartering shot, just behind the right shoulder, and I found the bullet just under the skin on his left flank. I'm guestimating the bullet traveled a good 4 ft or a little more through his body. I couldn't praise Nosler enough. We ended up with over 375 pounds of meat for the table and lots of stuff ground up for the dogs, I have the mount of my 6X6 bull in the living room where I give him a pat now and then he is a beauty!

what was more fun was popping prairie dogs with some special loads I bought that were 100 grain, soft points, I didn't do any reloading for the 270, no dies. Turned those puppies inside out like a sock, nothing left but the hides, the AZ ranchers were happy to see them go!

I miss shooting Prairie dogs back home. As a kid practicing on running Jack rabbits moving prairie dogs or just long distance shooting on Prairie dogs was fun made you a better shot. One time when the pups were out early June they don't spook very easily cause I haven't been shot at enough yet, we would take three rifles, 22s to the big guns and there was a time where we had to actually let the 22 cool down! Fun!

 

[pharmseller]

She was running on adrenalin, deer have been known to run nearly a mile heart shot on adrenalin.

A mile. Heart shot.

Now, I'm not saying I've seen all there is to see, but I'm gonna refer to the Tall Tale meter on this one.

 

[VanceInWA]

You can kill an elk with 1911 pistol I suppose but it doesn't make it a good tool for the job

Exactly. After my parents divorced when I was 12 I tried building a coon trap out of scrap wood to put in the field next to us. No Dad around, no tools. So I built it using my Mom's shoe as a hammer and a butter knife for a screw driver. With persistence I finally got it in shape, but trying to do the job with crap tools stuck with me. Thanks to those years I'm rather a tool hound now, never want to be without a proper tool for any job that needs done. And when it comes to what is a "proper" tool there is one lesson I've definitely learned, and it equally applies to hunting: I'd rather have too much tool than too little.

 

[Spitpatch]

A mile. Heart shot.

Now, I'm not saying I've seen all there is to see, but I'm gonna refer to the Tall Tale meter on this one.

On a CHEST shot animal, (perhaps only one lung affected, or both lungs partially affected) I cannot doubt the ability of big game's resilience to travel.

However,
On the subject of running after a (post-mortem confirmed) HEART shot:

This Coyote was hit on a dead run with a .221 Remington Fireball (rifle) at about 120 yards. A portion of his heart is actually visible here.

He gained speed at impact, and went an honest 75 yards, then the effect was as if an extension cord that powered him was pulled from the wall

Switch Off.

 

[pharmseller]

On a CHEST shot animal, (perhaps only one lung affected, or both lungs partially affected) I cannot doubt the ability of big game's resilience to travel.

However,
On the subject of running after a (post-mortem confirmed) HEART shot:

This Coyote was hit on a dead run with a .221 Remington Fireball (rifle) at about 120 yards. A portion of his heart is actually visible here.

He gained speed at impact, and went an honest 75 yards, then the effect was as if an extension cord that powered him was pulled from the wall

Switch Off.
View attachment 1124534

I've seen stuff like this too. I once took the heart out of a medium sized blacktail doe with a 12 gauge slug, maybe 30 yards. She was moving pretty good at the time and kept it up for another 30-40 yards, then tipped over.

But that's a far cry from nearly a mile.




P

 

[7mmRugerm77]

I think what we often think of as a mile is greatly understated(or overstated). A Mile is 1760 yards.. so an animal traveling a 1/4 mile after being shot is possible.. Plus an animal traveling far enough that the hunter had to walk a mile(given the hunter probably took a different route than the animal) is also possible.

 

[pharmseller]

Greatly understated. Or overstated.

 

[osprey]

I once shot a coyote facing me uphill just under the crest of a steep snowy coulee about 300yds away. I shot him with a 270 using a 14O accubond. Shot entered chest and mowed spine, blew up heart, lungs, guts and exited rear end. That coyote went a documented 100yds. Of course it was as a dead sled rocketing down the hill leading with his chin and leaving entrails in the sage brush all they way down. He gained an impressive amount of speed on his journey and piled up at the bottom in spectacular fashion. I think I used enough gun lol.