6.5 PRC fail on elk.

[DeanMk]

...I thought you were famous for your Oscar winning role in that Milky Way commercial?

...

 

[264Winmag]

The shooter has the skill.

The cartridge has the capability. The less powerful 6.5x55 has been the most common cartridge used to kill the European equivalent of the elk for years. My oldest brother used a 264 Win Magnum, only slightly more powerful than the PRC for 25 years and never lost an Elk. He didn't shoot them long distance. I don't know what ammunition he used, but I know he reloaded a lot of Speer. I don't think he used anything special. His hunting strategy was to find a stump that provided enough cover to mostly break up his shape and then drink coffee from his thermos until an animal came in range.

I don't know what the performance of the bullet used in the OP is like.

I think sometimes unpredictable sheite happens and I don't fault either the shooter or the cartridge. Just a combination of several things together followed by a rifle jamming and preventing a second shot.

I know this link is old but I've been reading so many things that I had a join the form. I have used the 264 Winchester Magnum to take every big game on this continent excluding the large bears and mountain goat. This was long before the 6.5 ever became popular. I have shot elk with a 6.5 PRC and the 264 magnum. If you use the right bullet, Accu bond and such, but I've also use the good old cup and cores because the Accu bond was not invented yet with great success and you can shoot your rifle well, the 6.5 PRC is plenty for elk. There was one statement made that I read was that the PRC is actually faster than the 264 Mag, one, that's not true, don't believe the books you read. And some factory ammunition and then the new Hornady reloading book that's true, but again it's all about marketing if you reload the 264 you'll know what I mean. There is no replacement for displacement. Is the 6.5 PRC the best cartridge for elk, probably not, but in the hands of a skilled rifleman, I have seen Elk killed with the 25-35 Winchester. I used to use the big magnums the 300 WBY, 300 ultra Meg, killed a lot of elk with a seven mag and they died just as fast with a 6.5 PRC or the 264 Mag with less recoil. With a 6.5 PRC I've taken three elk now since the cartridge came out. All died on impact with one shot, but I know where to hit an elk to make them drop. That took years of experience you see all these videos on YouTube shooting in smaller calibers at large game and just by shot placement you can see where the animal runs away. Make sure your rifles accurate, make sure you know your rifle and use a good bullet and you'll be just fine. I never lost an elk and until I can't walk anymore, I plan not to.

 

[Bobbygun]

I have used the 264 Winchester Magnum to take every big game on this continent excluding the large bears and mountain goat.

Welcome to the forum. The following isn't seriously meant to disparage the .264 Win Mag, but it is a true story.

The only animal I've ever seen shot with a .264 Win Mag was a blue jay by my Dad about 25 years ago (he's been gone about 10 years). He was sitting in his front yard at a bench rest, trying to develop a load in the rifle he had bought from a friend. The hapless bird just happened to land on a gate about 20 yards in front of him. When he took aim, I expected the bird to vaporize. Instead, it fell off of the gate and flopped around on the ground. From that day on I gave him a bad time about the .264 Win Mag not even being able to make a one shot kill on a blue jay. LOL

I don't even remember the make on that gun, but it had a beautiful custom stock on it. We spent days trying to develop a load for it without much success. It mostly shot 4" groups at 100 yards. When cleaning it, I put a light down the barrel. That barrel didn't have a 1 in 10 twist, more like 10 in 1. It was the darndest looking thing. Had more twists than a spring on an old screen door. We gave up trying to sight it in. I have only bad memories (other than the pretty stock) of that gun. It kicked like a mule from the bench rest. I regularly use a .300 Weatherby Magnum (Wby Vanguard rifle) and don't even find it unpleasant to shoot, but hated the recoil from that .264 Win Mag. I inherited most of my dad's guns when he passed, but was happy to see that .264 go to a nephew. He's a big boy and has a .300 RUM, so the recoil probably won't bother him.

Glad you have had better experiences. I'm sure my experience is an anomaly, but I'm old and tainted at this point, so there'll be no more .264 Win Mags in my future. That really was an awesome stock though.

 

[264Winmag]

That is a great story! It just goes to show no matter how large of a caliber or how fast we can push a bullet, if we don't hit it in the right spot or graze it anything can run or in this case fall to the ground in one piece and not be vaporized. I have a good story about the 300 RUM, shot an elk at about 125 yards it was a chest shot, knocked him over flat on his back all legs up in the air, by the time I got over to him he was still alive so I pulled out my little 22 pistol and dispatch him behind the ear. Upon skinning him out I found the 180 grain spear grand slam had separated from its jacket from the lead core on impact and didn't even go through the sternum. It wasn't the rifles fault or even the cartridge, the bullet had failed. That happens sometimes. If I and my friend we're not there to witness it we would've never believed it.

 

[3MTA3]

That is a great story! It just goes to show no matter how large of a caliber or how fast we can push a bullet, if we don't hit it in the right spot or graze it anything can run or in this case fall to the ground in one piece and not be vaporized. I have a good story about the 300 RUM, shot an elk at about 125 yards it was a chest shot, knocked him over flat on his back all legs up in the air, by the time I got over to him he was still alive so I pulled out my little 22 pistol and dispatch him behind the ear. Upon skinning him out I found the 180 grain spear grand slam had separated from its jacket from the lead core on impact and didn't even go through the sternum. It wasn't the rifles fault or even the cartridge, the bullet had failed. That happens sometimes. If I and my friend we're not there to witness it we would've never believed it.

Exactly! IMO the killing ability depends on the following in this order of importance. If number 1 fails then 2 and 3 don't matter.

1. Shot placement
2. Bullet performance
3. Cartridge

 

[Bobbygun]

That's not what he said. He said as long as impact velocity is within the bullet designs threshold, energy means little. If the bullet is designed to reliably expand between 1800fps and 2500fps, he doesn't load it at 3300fps and shoot elk at 10 yards.

I wasn't actually an official member back in the heyday of this thread, so I never commented on it at the time (although I was a regular "ghoster" of the site). While I agree completely with Mr. No_Regerts' post, there's an old saying: "Man plans and God laughs." For instance, I've been packing my .300 Wby. Mag. during Spring bear season with visions of sniping huge bruins from long (well, for me) distance at the edge of some clear cut. It's not my fault the two bears I shot in 2020 and 2019 were within bow range. Well, it's NOT.

Seriously, I'll never be able to prove it because those two 180 grain Nosler Partions were long gone, but I doubt they inflicted anywhere near the kind of damage they were designed to inflict. The wound channels weren't all that impressive. On the other hand, both bears were dead within 30 yards of where they were struck.

 

[Koda]

Exactly! IMO the killing ability depends on the following in this order of importance. If number 1 fails then 2 and 3 don't matter.

1. Shot placement
2. Bullet performance
3. Cartridge

I was reading in some hunting blogs of legendary Frank Glaser who hunted everything up to moose with a 220 Swift attributing his kills to shot placement. Another blog summed up the order of importance with only 1) shot placement and 2) bullet penetration.
Seems like such a simple formula yet over the years "best hunting caliber" has been a never ending subject of debate, it is kinda fun to talk about sometimes.

 

[Superxjeff]

Simple as just not enough bullet for elk. My nephew had a similar experience with his .25-06 on elk, and he was only 75 yds. away when he shot a nice bull. He hit it twice, and each time it went down, but got back up and ran off. Fortunately his dad, my brother, was on the other side of the ridge and the bull elk came towards him. He dropped it with a 180 gr. .30-06 and the elk wasn't lost.
I have taken my .270 along as a backup to my .30-06, but thankfully never needed to use it. I just feel anything below a 180 gr. .30 caliber bullet is too little for elk.

We have killed over 30 bulls with a 25-06 without losing a single bull. It's not the round.

 

[CastleRocker]

I was reading in some hunting blogs of legendary Frank Glaser who hunted everything up to moose with a 220 Swift attributing his kills to shot placement. Another blog summed up the order of importance with only 1) shot placement and 2) bullet penetration.
Seems like such a simple formula yet over the years "best hunting caliber" has been a never ending subject of debate, it is kinda fun to talk about sometimes.

The book "Alaska's Wolf Man" is an EXCELLENT read! It was recommended to me by my best friend who still lives in AK. (In fact, he is running his boat from S.E. out to Akutan/D.H. as I'm typing this).

Mr. Glaser shot a LOT of everything up north, with rifle calibers that most folks who seem to know everything would scoff at. I've put 27 elk, (and no ides how many deer), on the ground with my 270 Win. and all with ONE shot. I'd say, that the top three most important aspects of an "elk rifle" are;

1- shot placement
2- shot placement
3- shot placement

 

[264Winmag]

Exactly! IMO the killing ability depends on the following in this order of importance. If number 1 fails then 2 and 3 don't matter.

1. Shot placement
2. Bullet performance
3. Cartridge

Yep, couldn't agree more. I was lucky I was born and raised out west. In my 40's my job took me east to MN. I still go home every year and hunt elk, mule deer and antelope if I get drawn. I do believe in magnum calibers and I have used them a lot where they make sense. When I moved here, I would go to gun stores and hear the salesman talking people into these magnum cartridges. Most of these people have never shot magnums let alone who knows what they're shooting ability is. Sometimes they would turn to me and ask what would you recommend, I would say if you can be patient and shoot well whatever the rifle you're the most accurate with, that will do fine for elk. But they would walk away with a magnum anyway which is fine, again sometimes they are needed. But I have been asked time and time again what have you taken elk with, well I say, 243Win, 25-06Rem, 264Winmag, 7mm-08, 7mmMag, 7mm RUM, 300RUM, 300Wby and 308. As long as I had the perfect shot and did not over extend the boundaries of my cartridge or bullet along with my own ability, they all died. Then when I tell him my grandfather shot every elk with a 25-35 Winchester and my dad with a 30-30 and they seem stunned that you can actually kill elk with a 25-35 or a 30-30. My grandfather and dad were true rifleman they always shot the elk in the head and they always shot deer in the head and never body shots. And I've never saw my grandfather or dad loose an animal.

Shot placement #1

 

[FishnhuntOR]

I'm sure it's been said before.
Elk are very tough animals and I wouldn't loose faith in the PRC, I think the eldx would do just fine at that distance ( probably better than up close) and if he didn't hit vitals, then yeah. The elk will walk away even if he only has 3 good legs.
It's Gut wrenching to loose an elk. It happens to the best of us.

 

[Koda]

I would go to gun stores and hear the salesman talking people into these magnum cartridges. Most of these people have never shot magnums let alone who knows what they're shooting ability is. Sometimes they would turn to me and ask what would you recommend, I would say if you can be patient and shoot well whatever the rifle you're the most accurate with, that will do fine for elk. But they would walk away with a magnum anyway

My guess is many people are new to shooting or hunting and when in doubt go with the more power solution... which makes sense in some ways if you just simply don't know its probably better to go bigger than smaller. Hard hitting calibers do work the same as lighter, so memories are made and impressions are passed down to the next generation that magnums are whats best, etc.. People tend to build a connection with their guns and the experiences they have with them, but on the flip side are people who maybe grew up with hunting and mentored by their dad or grandfather who maybe learned to shoot what they had on hand and got really good at it and passed those philosophies down to the next generation hunters.

 

[Nosferatu]

My guess is many people are new to shooting or hunting and when in doubt go with the more power solution... which makes sense in some ways if you just simply don't know its probably better to go bigger than smaller. Hard hitting calibers do work the same as lighter, so memories are made and impressions are passed down to the next generation that magnums are whats best, etc.. People tend to build a connection with their guns and the experiences they have with them, but on the flip side are people who maybe grew up with hunting and mentored by their dad or grandfather who maybe learned to shoot what they had on hand and got really good at it and passed those philosophies down to the next generation hunters.

If you can't track a blood trail, go with the bigger caliber.

If you can, your options open up.

This is why the .50 BMG is the best gun for newbies!

 

[Koda]

If you can't track a blood trail, go with the bigger caliber.

Whats interesting is the difference in diameter between most elk calibers is really insignificant to the size of an elk. I hunt elk with a smaller caliber and Ive heard over and over again how "well, then shot placement is critical...."
as if it wasnt with a 300 win mag?

 

[Nosferatu]

Whats interesting is the difference in diameter between most elk calibers is really insignificant to the size of an elk. I hunt elk with a smaller caliber and Ive heard over and over again how "well, then shot placement is critical...."
as if it wasnt with a 300 win mag?

That was mostly in jest, but in reality, the magnum is more likely to drop it where it stands rather than having to track it 200 yards to where it finally dies.

It's not the bullet diameter that matters, it's the sectional density. I'm pretty sure you already know all this crap though. I was just trying to illustrate a point; "New" hunters likely don't know how to track worth a damn. I've been doing it a long time and am still figuring things out.

 

[Superxjeff]

The good big cartridge is better then the good little cartridge every time. It's just math folks. The fact that so many guys can't handle recoil doesn't change that. I get that a guy is better off with something the can handle but that doesn't mean it's a good choice and certainly not the path I would recommend. I say buy enough gun and practice with it at the longest range you are willing to shoot. If you need to reduce recoil , add weight to the gun and/or get a muzzle break. I feel like the animal deserves it. My Uncle shot over 40 Elk in his life with a 25-06 and he never lost one but he was a crack shot and an excellent hunter, I wouldn't recommend that to the masses. That said... If you look at the proof it can be done by the right guy. The question is how many guys are THAT guy?

 

[Bobbygun]

The question is how many guys are THAT guy?

We all are Jeff. Most of us are legends in our own mind.

 

[Koda]

That was mostly in jest, but in reality, the magnum is more likely to drop it where it stands rather than having to track it 200 yards to where it finally dies.

It's not the bullet diameter that matters, it's the sectional density. I'm pretty sure you already know all this crap though. I was just trying to illustrate a point; "New" hunters likely don't know how to track worth a damn. I've been doing it a long time and am still figuring things out.

yeah, was just adding to the conversation. What I've noticed about the magnums is they will keep their energy to deliver that sectional density to penetrate at long range distances and I think thats where they truly shine over lighter calibers. But I still think shot placement is key for any caliber.

 

[Koda]

That said... If you look at the proof it can be done by the right guy. The question is how many guys are THAT guy?

My observations, way more people are not THAT guy regardless of their big caliber. I do notice the people who hunt with the lighter calibers tend to care more to be THAT guy though.

 

[bcp]

Elk don't read, and news by word of mouth travels slowly, so elk have no idea of how deadly a cartridge the 6.5 PRC is, and cannot react properly to being shot by one. In a few years they will react more appropriately.



Bruce