National 4th Circuit - Hirschfeld v. ATF - 18yr -olds OK to Buy Handguns

[RicInOR]

The panel strikes down the federal statute that bans professional gun dealers from selling handguns to 18-to-20-year-olds.

4th Cir. Panel Affirms Second Amendment RIghts of 18-to-20-Year-Olds

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[Ura-Ki]

About damn time a court has heard this and ruled properly on it!

 

[CRBMoA]

 

[American123]

Funny to read the minority opinion. I would disagree that guns (2nd Amendment) does more harm to Americans than voting and free speech (1st Amendment). I'd argue that the ideas actions by people put into power ultimately harm far more Americans than the conduit through which sometimes violence is perpetrated (firearms).

 

[salmon creek gary]

Funny to read the minority opinion. I would disagree that guns (2nd Amendment) does more harm to Americans than voting and free speech (1st Amendment). I'd argue that the ideas actions by people put into power ultimately harm far more Americans than the conduit through which sometimes violence is perpetrated (firearms).

Yeah, let's total up the personal injury and property damage losses accrued nation-wide during 1st Amendment-protected "mostly peaceful" riots from 2016-2021. Each one of those thousands of incidents were deliberately incited by the spoken and written words of agitators. See how that painful & costly freedom squares with the minority opinion's claim that the 2nd Amendment is "singularly capable of causing harm" (emphasis added). To leftists, "The pen is mightier than the sword" only holds true when it suits their agenda.

 

[pharmseller]

Federal Court Rules Under-21 Gun Bans Are Unconstitutional

"Our nation’s most cherished constitutional rights vest no later than 18. And the Second Amendment’s right to keep and bear arms is no different," Judge Julius Richardson wrote.

thefederalist.com

Discuss.

Also, suck it, Bi-Mart.




P

 

[Diamondback]

Funny to read the minority opinion. I would disagree that guns (2nd Amendment) does more harm to Americans than voting and free speech (1st Amendment). I'd argue that the ideas actions by people put into power ultimately harm far more Americans than the conduit through which sometimes violence is perpetrated (firearms).

Ambulance Chasers have cost America more in blood and treasure than firearms, can we ban lawyers?

 

[CHLChris]

So...this only affects the Virginias, Carolinas, and Maryland. I wonder if SCOTUS would ever take up this issue. Probably only if another Circuit upheld such a ban.

Anyone know if another Circuit has upheld that unconstitutional ban on 18-20 year olds buying handguns?

 

[RicInOR]

From the OP article:

"If the Fourth Circuit doesn't reverse this en banc, it seems very likely that the Supreme Court will agree to hear the case (given the disagreement between the Fourth Circuit and the Fifth Circuit on this question, and given that the Fourth Circuit panel has struck down a federal statute), assuming the federal government asks for Supreme Court review. If the Fourth Circuit does reverse this en banc, the Court may still hear the case (but would be much less likely to, if the Fourth and Fifth Circuits end up on the same side, upholding the federal statute)."

 

[citizen a]

Correct ruling. You don't get to withhold constitutional rights from people just because you think you have a good reason.

 

[StacattoP]

So since it's ruled unconstitutional does that mean people under the age of 21 will be able to buy handguns

 

[CamoDeafie]

See this thread on same topic https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...-olds-ok-to-buy-handguns.380124/#post-3002538

 

[TTSX]

That article mentions federal, but not state law.

 

[American123]

Ambulance Chasers have cost America more in blood and treasure than firearms, can we ban lawyers?

The movie "Hook" told us what to do with lawyers.

 

[titsonritz]

The movie "Hook" told us what to do with lawyers.

So did William Shakespeare, way before "Hook".

 

[American123]

So did William Shakespeare, way before "Hook".

True!

 

[Stomper]

So did William Shakespeare, way before "Hook".

Yeabutt…. Too many syllables, as is all too common in Queen's English speaking commonwealth countries.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Maths is hard!

 

[P7M13]

From the dissent:

Today, my good colleagues in the majority break new ground by invalidating a modest and long-established effort to control gun violence.

I believe that, statistically, the effort can be proven to be ineffective.
and

... the Second Amendment alone protects a direct and lethal right to endanger oneself and others….

That quote is a perverse distortion of the clause of the 2nd Amendment. Not only does the dissenting judge see the glass from the half full perspective, they see it contains toxic material.

 

[The Heretic]

Given my experience in working closely with 18-20 year olds in the military, I personally do not have much confidence in their maturity or judgement. That was 40+ years ago though and maybe the US military is more discerning about who they let enlist? I can't say for sure, but just from some of the FB posts from my old station (Yaquina Bay), they do seem to be better about training/etc.

That said, if a person is old enough to vote (again, questionable for 18-20), enter into a contract, enlist or be drafted (I do not support the draft) and carry firearms in defense of the country, then they have the right to purchase and carry firearms in their own defense as civilians. OTOH, I have felt for some time, that all of those should maybe be moved up to 20+ years of age due to lack of maturity.

There is the issue of maturity of the brain - and I think at 18-20 the teen brain is still maturing, especially with regards to impulse control. I know I had problems with impulse control into my early 20s, while noticeably more mature than the teens I worked with in the USCG. OTOH, some of that can be taught, but I don't think today's society is teaching teens how to make good judgements (vs. "at the time of the founding" - I would trust an 18 year old from that time much more than I would trust many of our 18 year olds today - simply due to having more real world experience and independence due to their environment).

So finally, that does not mean that some people, 18-20, are not able to be adults - I just think it is a grey area. We all know examples on both sides of this issue. I also know people that have never really matured that are my age, but I think as people grow older that percentage grows smaller.