.38 super/super comp...same same ?

[Throckmorton]

my son bought a 1911 in 38 super, on our classifieds i'm seeing 38 super comp brass. are they two diff. ammos, or just 2 diff. names ?

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[oremike]

The super comp has a smaller rim to head space on the case mouth. But other than that the cases are the same.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Here is a bunch of info on 38 Super and the headspace issue

The Old Super .38 Barrels

www.1911forum.com

 

[po18guy]

Due to the smaller rim (.390" same as 9mm), it might work fine, or there could be some extraction problems. If the brass is a good deal, it might be worth trying. However, a properly tuned extractor should work fine with both Super and Super Comp. The 38 Super has a rim of .406", so not all that much difference.

The complication and confusion stem from Colt's insistence on headspacing the round in early guns (1929 and on) on the tiny amount of rim that extended beyond the case wall and even then they insisted using the tiny surface of the barrel hood for headspacing. Some of those early guns shot well, but many did not. It was all the headspace design used by Colt and nothing to do with the cartridge itself.

The obvious solution was to headspace it on the case mouth, like virtually all other semi-auto cases. And, Colt finally did this - back in the late 70s or early 80s, IIRC. Here's a good article which explains it.

Super-Accurate .38 Super Loads - Shooting Times

Whether pushing bullets slow or fast, the .38 Super can deliver outstanding accuracy.

www.shootingtimes.com

 

[gmerkt]

Just a word to the wise. Be careful buying used .38 Super brass, in particular Super Comp. Because it may be brass that has seen heavy use in competition, reloaded several times. If you are going to buy used brass, try to find some that is once fired. Is your son going to be burning up a lot of ammunition? If not, maybe a purchase of new brass would be preferable.

When I was shooting .38 Super (not competitively), every once in a while I'd get a Comp case mixed in with the rest, never caused an issue in my guns. Mine were all stock guns (minus barrel change in one).

I had a Colt Mark IV Series 70, that had the old style chamber. Which I had to put a Bomar barrel in. Later, I had a Combat Commander made in 1990, that had the up-dated chamber. I also had a Government Model made 2000-something, that had the proper chamber. I won't speak about the Auto Ordnance nor the Shooters Arms Manufacturing ("SAM." made in Philippines) .38 Supers beyond saying that both were steaming piles of ca-ca. More advice: Never buy a .38 Super based on price point alone. I am so done with .38 Super, but one I thought might be worthy of trying was the Tanfoglio, which isn't a 1911 design.

 

[eb in oregon]

When I was shooting .38 Super (not competitively), every once in a while I'd get a Comp case mixed in with the rest, never caused an issue in my guns. Mine were all stock guns (minus barrel change in one).

I've shot plenty of both .38 Super and Super Comp through an EAA Witness and a SIG P220 and never had an issue.

 

[gmerkt]

EAA Witness

Yes, maybe I should've put Witness is parentheses after "Tanfoglio," as people may know the gun more widely by that brand name.

I wasn't aware of the Sig P220 in .38 Super, I'll have to look at pictures.

 

[gmerkt]

SIG P220

I just looked those up in .38 Super, an uncommon gun. I have to plead complete ignorance of Sig pistols, they were never in my zone of consideration for what I wanted to buy, plus tending to be expensive. The one experience I have with shooting a Sig was the P210, it was a German made gun. Shot like a dream the first magazine I went through. It was about a $2,000 gun as I recall, the range member who let me shoot his told me where he got it. I was interested enough to go by the shop. They told me they hadn't had any for quite some time, Sig wasn't making them in Germany any more. The next time I saw the member who owned one, that's when he allowed that he'd waited a year to get his. Sig NH has made them again here in the US, but I didn't like the appearance of those as much as I liked the German gun I fired. Grip design was different, for one thing.

Many years ago, I did own a French Model 1935A, which was a Charles Petter design and the basis for the later P210. My 1935A was one of those made during the German occupation and had their marks on it. .32 French Long Automatic.

Reading about the P220 in .38 Super, I saw that at one time, Browning offered it as a BDA. Not only was I unfamiliar with the gun but for a long time, as this gun has been around since the 1970's.

 

[po18guy]

The "American" edition of the Sig P220 has the 1911-style push button mag release. The earlier models had the typical Euro heel latch on the mags.

 

[eb in oregon]

Reading about the P220 in .38 Super, I saw that at one time, Browning offered it as a BDA. Not only was I unfamiliar with the gun but for a long time, as this gun has been around since the 1970's.

I don't recall the Browning BDA being offered in any other caliber than .45acp. The BDA was pretty expensive at the time, it was only offered for a few years. During the 70's and 80's the .38 Super had a brief resurgence due to it's appearance in action shooting. Using heavy bullets (around 147 grains) and a careful selection of powder it qualified for "Major" in action shooting. That was the driving force behind the development of the ".38 Super Comp" by Starline Brass. While all that was going on SIG put out a version of their P220 in .38 Super to capitalize on the "re-invention" of the .38 Super. SIG only offered those for a few years. I snapped one of those up as soon as the advertisements hit the magazines. It was also during this period where those making pistols in .38 Super changed to head spacing on the cartridge mouth instead of the cartridge rim. Regardless any modern pistol made in .38 Super head spaces on the cartridge mouth, which has increased the accuracy of those pistols. Personally I love the cartridge and pistols chambered in it. Hands and feet over 9x19 in most cases.

 

[po18guy]

Yep. They made relatively few .38 Supers, some Euro and some American style. But they made them.