30-06 handload safe?

[orygun]

Here is an example how our reloading manuals have been adjusted for our safety. Or lawyerized.
First pic is of the old Sierra manual from the late 60's and the other just a year or two old.

Using 3031 max charge is 47.9 grains and then the later book 41.1 grains.
Did his cases show signs of overpressure?

So over 30-35 years the loading data has decreased by 16.6%.

I personally still load some things near the high side, and use data out of older manuals.

I have a 45th Lyman manual printed in 1970 showing many loads in most calibers that are well above currently printed standards. I believe that more precise testing methods, increased liability concerns, and changes/additions to the powders we use are all responsible for those changes. I remember when BlueDot changed and I couldn't use it in my 41 Mag any longer. Man, was I bummed.

Back to the other thing,
I know you can stuff 60gr of RL22 or 59.5gr of IMR4831 in a Remington case and seat a 180gr Partition on top of it. There's room.
Was it a 30-06 Ackley Improved? 57gr of Varget behind a cup and core, bonded or partitioned bullet in an Ackley case wouldn't be that far off.
In a regular ol 30-06 case, nah, that's too much. At least it seems to be.
Flat primers? Yeah, some get "flatter" than the others, but I doubt that any healthy reload leaves much of a radius on the primer. The fact that he's not experiencing sticky bolt lift is encouraging, though. In the days before guys had easy access to reliable load data and chronographs they would increase powder charges until the bolt got sticky, and then back off. Or not.

My 06AI is my gun version of my hot rod. I strive to stay within the safety standards, but I put this thing together to be able to stretch it's legs. I have a reliable gun that performs like a magnum, but doesn't weigh like a magnum. When it was just a regular ol 06 I loaded it to the gills because I safely can. I use my chronograph and work up my loads while paying attention to the bolt lift, velocity and the condition of the expended case.

It would be difficult to try and enforce a safety rule just because you believe he's pushing beyond the limit. What are ya gonna do, break down a couple of rounds and check them, like the NHRA having you tear down an engine?
I guess next time you do like last time. After expressing your concern over his supposedly aggressive loads, park him at the end of the firing line and keep a buffer zone.

 

[DuneHopper]

I have always been for NO reloads at range policy, to much to go wrong with by standers if you don't know what you are doing.
Not sure why many still allow it, I have used reloads only for public land plinking. Maybe I am paranoid, but find it hard to trust the
work of people I don't know.

 

[orygun]

I have always been for NO reloads at range policy, to much to go wrong with by standers if you don't know what you are doing.
Not sure why many still allow it, I have used reloads only for public land plinking. Maybe I am paranoid, but find it hard to trust the
work of people I don't know.

Probably because most "riflemen" are reloaders. A "no reloads" policy would likely be the demise of many ranges with the exception of indoor pistol ranges.

 

[osprey]

Well I think no reloads is a bit over the top. I would like to see more outdoor ranges with solid barriers between bays for safety. It would also keep the obnoxious muzzle brakes tolerable.

 

[Flatfish]

What's the chronograph say?

I have a 30-06 that makes 300fps under book with 4350 (A great powder in 30-06). All indications were that pressure was low. Cannot come close to book velocity with it. Actually tried check weights to make sure the scale wasn't off. Shot 3 other known rifle load combos to make sure chrono wasn't out of spec.

I tried quicker powders. Finally landed on Varget under a 168 TSX at 2800 or so. The load is several grains above book (Less than your fellow at the range. But enough that it has my attention).

When you take into account that many (Most) reloading manuals use less pressure in 30-06 data that other chamberings due to the history of chamberings in weaker rifles. That's worth a little buffer right there.
If you have a sloppy chamber, and a long throat (I can seat 200 grain Partitions just barely in the case (Too long for mag box and ejection port. Had to pull bolt to get it out) and they don't engage lands. There's a little more buffer.

It took 5 grains more powder above my chosen load to see any signs of pressure (Brass flow on case head). Chrono showed 150fps more with that load. This tells me pressure is in bounds.

I won't list what my load data is, as it's well above book. But all the indicators point to a correct velocity/pressure.

Now I get in some/many rifles, this ammo will have high pressure. It's my responsibility to never ever let this ammo get fired in other rifles.

 

[JRuby]

I will go for accuracy any day over velocity. I really dont care that my rounds meet a specific speed. It doesn't matter how fast your bullet is going if you miss your mark. I also find the hottest loads are not the most accurate. Admittantly I have loaded some hot rounds in the past but I am really beginning to question why add the wear and tear to the gun and myself.

 

[JRuby]

I also will not load a cartridge that I cannot find a recipe in even an old reloading manual. Without a pressure gauge all your really doing is guessing at the pressure generated. IMHO

 

[bbbass]

Here is an example how our reloading manuals have been adjusted for our safety. Or lawyerized.
First pic is of the old Sierra manual from the late 60's and the other just a year or two old.

Using 3031 max charge is 47.9 grains and then the later book 41.1 grains.
Did his cases show signs of overpressure?

So over 30-35 years the loading data has decreased by 16.6%.

I personally still load some things near the high side, and use data out of older manuals.



One look at the cases would tell all we need to kn
View attachment 499215

View attachment 499214

^^^ This is what I was thinking too! Lawyers and CYA...

 

[rick benjamin]

Older powder is different than newer version. Shoot it over a chronograph to prove it.
Case volume varies from lot to lot
Runout varies from case to case unless trued
MY ADVICE - read lots of "how to" books and articles.
If your little voice starts whispering "hold my beer", take up knitting

 

[osprey]

With the advent of magneto speed chronos safely developing loads is an easier proposition. I recommend them highly and never hit the range without it.

 

[edslhead]

Probably because most "riflemen" are reloaders. A "no reloads" policy would likely be the demise of many ranges with the exception of indoor pistol ranges.

Thats all I shoot at the range. I don't see how anyone could tell what you were shooting anyway.

 

[WillametteWill]

Thats all I shoot at the range. I don't see how anyone could tell what you were shooting anyway.

Agree.

I've had some rifles that have never seen a factory round.

Admittedly, if I see a guy at a bench clearly testing out a bunch or handloads and he seems lost, like he keeps losing his glasses on his forehead...I'll move down several benches.

 

[DuneHopper]

I know, no one would know if you had reloads, the only issue I think of is trusting people to do what is the smart and right thing.
I have been swept id guess 60+ times by so called eggberts of firearms. So when a person says they shoot their own reloads all power to them, but I would prefer not to be nears them and no way trusting they know what they are doing unless I watched them load them.
BTW not knocking what one chooses to do, I do think as the legacy of reloaders thin, many will not learn the old ways and will do stupid bubblegum like we see all the time now, that we never used to. Maybe I am more cynical today then usual.

 

[ron]

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I have always been for NO reloads at range policy, to much to go wrong with by standers if you don't know what you are doing.
Not sure why many still allow it, I have used reloads only for public land plinking. Maybe I am paranoid, but find it hard to trust the
work of people I don't know.

high power rifle competition for about 30 years. All I ever shoot are reloads and that goes for about 98% of everyone else I shoot with. I own 9 rifles chambered in 30/06. I use a lot of IMR 4064 for Garand safe loads.

 

[edslhead]

Dune, I'm pretty careful not to overfill the cases

 

[edzz]

Dune, I'm pretty careful not to overfill the cases

View attachment 499415

Looks like it's time to start using a drop tube.

 

[No_Regerts]

I know, no one would know if you had reloads, the only issue I think of is trusting people to do what is the smart and right thing.
I have been swept id guess 60+ times by so called eggberts of firearms. So when a person says they shoot their own reloads all power to them, but I would prefer not to be nears them and no way trusting they know what they are doing unless I watched them load them.
BTW not knocking what one chooses to do, I do think as the legacy of reloaders thin, many will not learn the old ways and will do stupid bubblegum like we see all the time now, that we never used to. Maybe I am more cynical today then usual.

I'd never polute a rifle I take seriously with factory loads......eeww.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I think handloads are fine IF...
You research first what is safe for your firearm and...
You pay attention at all times to every aspect of the reloading process...

Also never allow ammo that you haven't inspected prior to being shot , get used in your rifle....
Andy

Amen brother... I love it when you step up to the pulpit...

 

[gmerkt]

OP, that is too heavy a charge for Varget in .30-06 pushing a 165 gr. bullet. The unusual report of the rifle when the cartridge went off is what lead you to ask questions in the first place. As RSO, once you noted the charge he was using and checked reloading reference data, you had a duty to kick him off the range. Not only for his own safety, and not only for the safety of other shooters nearby. But for your own well being as a person in charge who could be held liable for damages that occurred after you became aware of a dangerous situation. As RSO, you cannot take people's feelings into account, safety comes first. Don't be afraid to ask someone to leave.

That time-worn claim that "my daddy used this recipe for years" doesn't cut it. I've heard it all before an an RSO myself. Just one example, guy shooting an overcharge of IMR 4198 in .222 Remington, he's getting pierced primers, gas in the face, "I've been using this load for years." Your guy may not even have his daddy's recipe right, could have the wrong powder; for some of the slow burners that charge could be correct. All you knew was what was before you and it was wrong.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

OP, that is too heavy a charge for Varget in .30-06 pushing a 165 gr. bullet. The unusual report of the rifle when the cartridge went off is what lead you to ask questions in the first place. As RSO, once you noted the charge he was using and checked reloading reference data, you had a duty to kick him off the range. Not only for his own safety, and not only for the safety of other shooters nearby. But for your own well being as a person in charge who could be held liable for damages that occurred after you became aware of a dangerous situation. As RSO, you cannot take people's feelings into account, safety comes first. Don't be afraid to ask someone to leave.

That time-worn claim that "my daddy used this recipe for years" doesn't cut it. I've heard it all before an an RSO myself. Just one example, guy shooting an overcharge of IMR 4198 in .222 Remington, he's getting pierced primers, gas in the face, "I've been using this load for years." Your guy may not even have his daddy's recipe right, could have the wrong powder; for some of the slow burners that charge could be correct. All you knew was what was before you and it was wrong.

Exactly what I was telling him in an earlier post. Hurt feelings is a lot better than getting ones face blown off, or hurting or killing someone else. If it looked like I had no concern for the shooter in the OP, well, there's a reason for it. The OP stated his concerns. The young guy (probably a know it all sob) brushed him off. The way I see it, is after I warn you, the rest is on you.. The OP, being "the one in charge" had a duty to politely ask the guy to STOP using those UNSAFE handloads, or to leave the premises. Pretty plain and simple...