30-06 handload safe?

[2ndtimer]

So, I am serving as Safety Advisor at my club's range this morning, and I may have overstepped my role. As a safety advisor, I am there to observe and remind people of the range rules and answer any questions they have regarding the range and our club rules. A couple of younger guys were on a bench sighting in their rifles and one was a real Boomer. When I looked at his rifle, I was surprised to see he was shooting handloads in a Remington 700 chambered in 30-06, as I presumed it was a Magnum of some sort. Then I noticed his label on his box of handloads:. 57.0 gr of Varget, with tell tale green tip Nosler Ballistic Tips. I asked if they were 125 gr bullets, as they looked a little long. He said no, they were 165 gr bullets! I said, "Wow, that is quite a heavy charge of that powder for that particular bullet weight in that cartridge." (I checked Hodgdon website and they showed a maximum load for Varget and a 165 gr Hornady GMX of 48.3 gr, and maximum with the 165 gr Sierra SPBT of 50.5 gr. So he was about 6 1/2 gr over published maximum loads. He said his father had worked it up 15 years ago and it has been fine. The primers were flat, but he didn't send to have any difficulty extracting the cases. Since they were at least 40 feet away from other shooters, I just went and joined the other shooters.
What do you think? I think I will keep a good distance if I see him again. It is probably fine - right up until it develops excessive head space or has a catastrophic failure. Opinions? When I left. I gently suggested he might take a look at a few loading manuals and decide if he wants to continue loading 15% over published maximum recommended loads.

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[11Charlie]

I don't reload yet but working on getting started. I wouldn't personally go anywhere near that guy let alone shoot next to him. It may be all good but if it does go bad well I'm guessing it will be really bad!

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

too much powder. if hes stuck in his ways let'm blow his face off. better his than yours.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

varget and IMR4320 are similar in burn rate. since theres not a published lod in my nosler book for 165gr...nosler lists imr4320 at 50gr max charge. the case is 89% full. i would say at 57gr hes got a pretty compressed load with varget.

personally, i load 30-06 165gr nos BT with 49.5gr of IMR4320 and get 2800fps.


its also been said "IMR4320 was varget before varget was cool"

 

[Medic!]

I want to here what Andy thinks.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Darwin's theory applies here. The guy probably got that load data from some internet site. I'm actually surprised that 700 extractor held up. The main problem I see here is he could injure or kill innocent bystanders when his rifle goes KA-BOOM!!!!!!

 

[Medic!]

Did you ask him if his father happened to still be alive.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

when i get home from dinner with my wife i will put 57gr of varget into a 30-06 case and see if its even do-able

 

[KKG]

It might be a good idea to suggest that he do his shooting at the far end of the Range. But, I'd make sure the EMTs have a clear route to his bench! I've done "Proof Testing" for a Firearms Manufacturer and we used "Proof Ammunition" than was loaded 30% OVER maximum. Every time he fires another round he is weaking the rifle and at some point it is likely to come apart.

 

[thorborg]

57?

 

[Velzey]

Here is an example how our reloading manuals have been adjusted for our safety. Or lawyerized.
First pic is of the old Sierra manual from the late 60's and the other just a year or two old.

Using 3031 max charge is 47.9 grains and then the later book 41.1 grains.
Did his cases show signs of overpressure?

So over 30-35 years the loading data has decreased by 16.6%.

I personally still load some things near the high side, and use data out of older manuals.



One look at the cases would tell all we need to kn

 

[bsa1917hunter]

So, I am serving as Safety Advisor at my club's range this morning, and I may have overstepped my role. As a safety advisor, I am there to observe and remind people of the range rules and answer any questions they have regarding the range and our club rules. A couple of younger guys were on a bench sighting in their rifles and one was a real Boomer. When I looked at his rifle, I was surprised to see he was shooting handloads in a Remington 700 chambered in 30-06, as I presumed it was a Magnum of some sort. Then I noticed his label on his box of handloads:. 57.0 gr of Varget, with tell tale green tip Nosler Ballistic Tips. I asked if they were 125 gr bullets, as they looked a little long. He said no, they were 165 gr bullets! I said, "Wow, that is quite a heavy charge of that powder for that particular bullet weight in that cartridge." (I checked Hodgdon website and they showed a maximum load for Varget and a 165 gr Hornady GMX of 48.3 gr, and maximum with the 165 gr Sierra SPBT of 50.5 gr. So he was about 6 1/2 gr over published maximum loads. He said his father had worked it up 15 years ago and it has been fine. The primers were flat, but he didn't send to have any difficulty extracting the cases. Since they were at least 40 feet away from other shooters, I just went and joined the other shooters.
What do you think? I think I will keep a good distance if I see him again. It is probably fine - right up until it develops excessive head space or has a catastrophic failure. Opinions? When I left. I gently suggested he might take a look at a few loading manuals and decide if he wants to continue loading 15% over published maximum recommended loads.

2ndtimer, I like your posts man. You seem like a good guy. I'd think if you are the "range safety adviser", you should have the ultimate say in what's safe and allowable and what's not in your club at your range. When I shoot at my club, and I see something unsafe, I'll speak up and say something. I didn't take the RSO course that some of the members at my club did, but that doesn't matter. We all need to be aware and look out for others. Keep each other safe. Sometimes you have to put your foot down my friend.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Here is an example how our reloading manuals have been adjusted for our safety. Or lawyerized.
First pic is of the old Sierra manual from the late 60's and the other just a year or two old.

Using 3031 max charge is 47.9 grains and then the later book 41.1 grains.
Did his cases show signs of overpressure?

So over 30-35 years the loading data has decreased by 16.6%.

I personally still load some things near the high side, and use data out of older manuals.



One look at the cases would tell all we need to know.

View attachment 499215
View attachment 499214

I fail to see how comparing 30-06 to 308 load data applies here. Of course the 308w is going to take less powder: Smaller case= less powder charge. I guess it's a good idea to not confuse the 2 when looking at load data? Just FYI, my Sierra load manual from 1985 shows the exact same thing your "1960's" manual shows as far as max load of that powder you cited.

 

[maddog]

I don't reload yet but working on getting started. I wouldn't personally go anywhere near that guy let alone shoot next to him. It may be all good but if it does go bad well I'm guessing it will be really bad!

Ouch!

 

[Velzey]

I fail to see how comparing 30-06 to 308 load data applies here. Of course the 308w is going to take less powder: Smaller case= less powder charge. I guess it's a good idea to not confuse the 2 when looking at load data?

I mixed up the Pics. But anyhow you get the idea. Load data can be way different.
You can see 7mm mag data from the early 60's that's 12 grains different than current data.

It's good to see your concerned with the shooters safety.

 

[KKG]

Powder, Primers and even some Brass have changed in the last 40+ years and so some load data is also going to change. I would consider that load to be less than ideal but at least he's using it in a strong action.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Here is an example how our reloading manuals have been adjusted for our safety. Or lawyerized.
First pic is of the old Sierra manual from the late 60's and the other just a year or two old.

Using 3031 max charge is 47.9 grains and then the later book 41.1 grains.
Did his cases show signs of overpressure?

So over 30-35 years the loading data has decreased by 16.6%.

I personally still load some things near the high side, and use data out of older manuals.



One look at the cases would tell all we need to kn
View attachment 499215

View attachment 499214

BLC2 is on the low side for both manuals. i use blc2 more than any other rifle powder for 308(46gr) and 30-06(49-50gr) 165gr

i dont care what anyone says about blc2 its SUPER consistant and accurate for me in 308 win even when its very hot and very cold outside.

like ive used lots of other rifle powders as suggested on other forums when all they do is talk crap about blc2. for me, its un matched as far as accuracy so far.

 

[No_Regerts]

Im just surprised he's using Varget with any bullet over 150grs.

I'm not sure you can put enough varget in a 30-06 case to get the action to blow.

 

[po18guy]

If you see him again, tell him that flattened primers are a bad sign - that he is not only beating his rifle up, but risks a case head separation. Dad's load was for powder formulated in dad's time, quite possibly with different deterrent coatings, using different primers, cases and bullets. A different rifle almost certainly. And, at what ambient temp did dad test those loads? Hotter is hotter.

 

[WillametteWill]

I agree with others that manuals have been reigned back by lawyers over the years. My first manuals are from the late 70's early 80's and are hotter than current versions. However, I have run into several loads over the years that were WAY hot far below the max listed (as in pull the bullets). Then you look at a newer manual and the current load are far lower.

My current 223 load is 3% above max in the current manual but was below max when it was developed. No pressure signs at all. 39 years of reloading off and on and still learning.

To me it was good for the OP to question the person. Might make him go home and think. Also sounds like it was handled professionally. Honestly, I would want someone to question me in the same situation; life continually reminds me I'm not perfect!