270 Win is a better cartridge than 6.5 Creedmoor

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I shot a friend's 6.5CM a couple of weeks ago.
First time being around the cartridge.
It was a JP Rifles factory-built AR.

Very pleasant and easy to shoot.
The rifle was bug-hole capable.
I didn't do that well, but pretty close.

His cross hairs are a big coarse IMO, so next time I'll try playing one of the corners and go for that bug hole.
And a Redfield target. I like those diamonds.
So Creedmoor seems to be good at what it was designed for.
For hunting I would think that it would equal the Swede.

We're in the "6.5 Era"
If a little is good, maybe more is better ?
maxresdefault.jpg
6.5 CM - Barrel Life 2300
6.5 PRC - Barrel Life 1300

Here's a new cartridge comparator that is being developed.
Thus far they've done 6.5CM, 6.5PRC, 30-06 and .270
The format is easy on the eyes, IMO.
 

Spitpatch

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I shot a friend's 6.5CM a couple of weeks ago.
First time being around the cartridge.
It was a JP Rifles factory-built AR.

Very pleasant and easy to shoot.
The rifle was bug-hole capable.
I didn't do that well, but pretty close.

His cross hairs are a big coarse IMO, so next time I'll try playing one of the corners and go for that bug hole.
And a Redfield target. I like those diamonds.
So Creedmoor seems to be good at what it was designed for.
For hunting I would think that it would equal the Swede.

We're in the "6.5 Era"
If a little is good, maybe more is better ?
View attachment 783448
6.5 CM - Barrel Life 2300
6.5 PRC - Barrel Life 1300

Here's a new cartridge comparator that is being developed.
Thus far they've done 6.5CM, 6.5PRC, 30-06 and .270
The format is easy on the eyes, IMO.
"The 6.5 Era": Some of these cartridges need catchy, more marketable names in order to ride the wave, and so we can keep track:

6.5 Creedmoor seems to be doing pretty well with that gimmicky moniker.
Others seem to be struggling, so here's a market boost to some of the rest:

6.5 Swedish Mauser = 6.5 Swedemoor
.264 Winchester Magnum = 6.5 Exceedmoor
6.5 Nosler = 6.5 Makesyableedmoor
6.5-'06 = 6.5 Dontneedmoor
 
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If the 280 had come out 27 years earlier O’Connor would have never even given the 270 a glance.
Not the way Remington made it, but by the time Fred Huntington and P.O. Ackley got done with it, he probably would have.
He would have probably picked any "good" (which the 270 certainly is) small bore cartridges, just to get under Elmer's skin. And the 270 is American. Something very important to most riflemen of the time.

All of the comments previously stated about lack of recoil become very important to lots of folks. In the same vein I started my grandson with a Savage 99 in 243 Win vs. the Model 94 in 30-30. The Savage is heavier, has a buttpad and recoils with less energy. He'll shoot the 243 from the bench until I run out of ammo. I guarantee he wouldn't want to go thru a full tube of ammo if he was shooting the 30-30. It's also the same reason I picked the 7mm-08 for my wife. She had matching 99's, the 243 and her dad's 308. Swapping the shortened butt from the 243 made the 308 fit, but the recoil made her flinch. The Ruger Compact in 7mm-08 has her shooting like this.

7mm-08.jpg
 
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"The 6.5 Era": Some of these cartridges need catchy, more marketable names in order to ride the wave, and so we can keep track:

6.5 Creedmoor seems to be doing pretty well with that gimmicky moniker.
Others seem to be struggling, so here's a market boost to some of the rest:

6.5 Swedish Mauser = 6.5 Swedemoor
.264 Winchester Magnum = 6.5 Exceedmoor
6.5 Nosler = 6.5 Makesyableedmoor
6.5-'06 = 6.5 Dontneedmoor
You forgot one...
6.5 x 300 Weatherby = 6.5 Canthearnomoor

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the "6.5 Era" !
Just don't call me 'more
The name is 'moor !
More is already built in !
 

Spitpatch

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"6.5 CM - Barrel Life 2300
6.5 PRC - Barrel Life 1300"


Whose hat were these pulled out of?

"Barrel life" is certainly not an objective assignment according to cartridge. So many more subjective factors are involved, that even a ballpark assignment to a specific cartridge may be highly erroneous when compared to actual usage.

Even the term itself is arbitrary: What is the brick-wall cut off criteria for "Barrel Life"?
 
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The brick wall cutoff is when your 7mag that makes the same hole at 300 yards starts keyholing at 25 yards.
I have heard that barrel life is in direct proportion to the volume of powder burned in it
 
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"6.5 CM - Barrel Life 2300
6.5 PRC - Barrel Life 1300"


Whose hat were these pulled out of?

"Barrel life" is certainly not an objective assignment according to cartridge. So many more subjective factors are involved, that even a ballpark assignment to a specific cartridge may be highly erroneous when compared to actual usage.

Even the term itself is arbitrary: What is the brick-wall cut off criteria for "Barrel Life"?
The backside (hat) you ask about is above in the link that I posted.
I think that they explain their averaging methods if you open the link and read it.
 

Spitpatch

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The backside (hat) you ask about is above in the link that I posted.
I think that they explain their averaging methods if you open the link and read it.
I did. Which is why I asked the question.

"The 6.5 PRC has an average barrel life of 1,328 shots, which is 80% worse than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Because of its high max pressure, velocity, and powder capacity, the barrel of a 6.5 PRC is somewhat shorter than other rifles, but is at least in the acceptable range, unlike some fast magnum cartridges."

That is what I read.

I resisted the temptation to believe that someone who did not proofread what they published as gospel might not be a reliable source. (See, "the barrel of a 6.5 PRC is somewhat shorter...").

They DO explain the velocity chart as a result of averaging. Certainly. That is hard data with source material noted.

Data (and averaging methods you indicate are there) for their "conclusions" regarding "Barrel Life" must somehow be visible to others that read this and so I should probably grant the benefit of the doubt.

But I certainly don't see it.

I'm very nearly convinced to join you in the suggestion that the wellspring of this information is more southern than northern.
 
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6.5 CM - Barrel Life 2300
6.5 PRC - Barrel Life 1300"


I do not know who came up with those numbers but I can tell you they do not understand how it works.

Years ago Jim Carmichael of Outdoor Life set out to determine when a gun loses it's useable accuracy , he ended up selecting a Shilen custom rifle in 220 Swift which is arguably one of the most notorious barrel burners to have ever graced the shooting world. When the gun was new they shot it to determine its accuracy which was sub moa, he then took group measurements every 500 rounds until they had shot something in the nature of 10,000 rounds through the rifle.
When the rifle was " shot out" it was still grouping a little over an inch with Carmichael determining the bores were good enough shape the chamber could be cut off and the barrel rechambered and still be a sub moa gun in 223 .

The gist of this being that the gun was only "shot out" in the terms of it being a sub moa varmint rifle. It was still very much a gun capable of delivering fine accuracy for most other purposes. When I shot F Class I was having 6.5-284 barrels changed out around every 1500 rounds not because the rifling was shot out of the barrels but because the throats were getting too long and causing more free bore . I gave one of those shot out barrels to a friend who had the chamber cut off and then rechambered it to 6.5 TCU . He is still using that barrel today.

Barrel life is a very subjective thing ... YMMV
 
Oh geeze, I can't cite the source...
One of the thoughts on "shot out barrels" of yesteryear has to do with copper fouling that wasn't able to be cleaned by old time methods. A barrel claimed to be "shot out" may have been saved by a thorough cleaning. No doubt that many barrels can return to good accuracy by being cut back a couple of threads and rechambered, restoring the throat dimensions.
 

Grizzly_A

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I find it hilarious all the arguing over my many years which cartridge is better, the 6.8 mm or the 7mm. and now the 6.5 mm joins the fray. I started out with the 270, after a few years I got a good deal on a custom 7 mag and shot it many years. I started shooting the AR platform and built an AR-10 in 7mm-08. All three of these would shoot amazingly tight groups, and I don't think the animals I killed over the years could tell the difference in these. I welcome the 6.5 into this game. It is like watching a good football game between 2 teams that you don't care about, but it is still good football
Agreed. :)

The real mainstays in bolt action cartridges are the 243, 270, 308, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag. Cartridges come and go depending on where the pendulum is.

We went through a big magnum fad with the RUMs and WSMs in 1990s. None of which are especially popular anymore. We’ve drifted back toward the mild side with the 6.5 CM. Soon, people will be attracted to more horsepower or something that doesn’t have a belt. Rifles, ammo, and components will sell.

All the while, the people using the mainstays will save money on new fads and will keep hitting targets and killing game. They will be able to buy whatever rifle they want since everyone chambers for those cartridges. Ammo will be bought anywhere.
I agree with this. There's a lot of validity of keeping the same parent cartridge and changing the bullet diameter. Look at the folks running 7mm mag. Their shoulders are giving out and they are trading them in for milder recoiling calibers. It was hot 20 years ago, but it's popularity is waning.
I do however also appreciate the science and development that goes into creating a new caliber that's very efficient and a great balance. If I only had 1 rifle for my do all, it still wouldn't be a 6.5.


The .270 is a problem in search of a solution.

There, I said it.
That sounds like heresy....
 
I missed the post about the 270 being a problem in search of a solution.

It's been doing it's job, and doing it well, for a long time. I think that's the solution.
 
Agreed. :)


I agree with this. There's a lot of validity of keeping the same parent cartridge and changing the bullet diameter. Look at the folks running 7mm mag. Their shoulders are giving out and they are trading them in for milder recoiling calibers. It was hot 20 years ago, but it's popularity is waning.
I do however also appreciate the science and development that goes into creating a new caliber that's very efficient and a great balance. If I only had 1 rifle for my do all, it still wouldn't be a 6.5.



That sounds like heresy....
I’m not sure the 7mm Rem Mag ever really hurt anyone. Its quite mild actually.
 

2ndtimer

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You guys should see the hate I'm getting on the 6.5 Creedmoor facebook group I posted this too. It's actually pretty funny. I think they might be putting a posse together to hunt me down.
I wouldn’t worry too much about a posse that can’t withstand the “fierce recoil“ of a .270 Winchester. :rolleyes:
 
Recoil is a subjective thing.

My boss mentions the time he shot a friends 300 Win Mag and would NEVER imagine shooting one again. I've only owned one of them, but it didn't seem to be any different than my '06AI in recoil. The Ruger 375 stung a bit until I learned to better "roll" with it. The 45-70 shooting 400 grainers at a bit over 2000fps was something else, but only because of the crescent steel buttplate. Had to make sure that one was tucked into the shoulder socket, otherwise it was bruise city.
My 500 S&W Magnum was crazy, especially with Hornady ammo.
None of my friends shot more than one round out of the 45-70 and only one fired a full cylinder from the 500, even with loads that weren't quite up to the recoil of the Hornady 350's.

Me? I don't care much. But I may be the exception. Some say I'm "special", but that is a completely different issue!:D

You'll notice from my previous posts that I understand what recoil does to other people and make all concessions to make sure they are comfortable when shooting. No reason to make them gun shy. We've all seen the videos of guys handing some powerhouse rifle, shotgun or pistol to their girlfriend and videoing it, thinking it's funny. I just think they are a$$es.
 

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