10/22 shooting poorly

[Grizzly_A]

So I've got a stainless syn 10/22 that just doesn't seem to be shooting well. It's got the newer style weaver/tip off rail. About 5+ years old, doesn't have a problem functioning with multiple brands of ammo. It's seen several thousand rounds. It's had 2 different scopes mounted on it and both are showing similar problems. Shooting Rem T-Bolts for the most part, with some Win X-pert.

The rail screws are tight and thread locked, the scope and rings are solid, but I'm getting some odd behavior on target. I took a scope that was on a different gun, but had to crank it way right (you can see from the pictures)

When I have the barrel band off, it's shooting like this: (POA was the center circle, POI was the upper left circle) Shooting high and left.


The center "group" was still in the process of moving the scope to POA and POI to the same spot. Note the vertical is better.

I installed the barrel band again and shot at the right circle. POA can be seen in this image. If you can call this a group:


Ammo and gun were the same temperature, breeze was calm/none. Distance was about 30 yds. Shooting done from a supported position.

The original thought was that the holes in the receiver are drilled off-center. Checking the holes with a caliper, I'd say they are in spec.

I think we'll swap stocks next and try a different barrel band (with/without) and see if that can narrow it down any.

What you do think?

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[the4thshake]

I think your choice in ammo is part of the problem. Try something by Federal or CCI.

Check your v block screws to make sure they are tight. Do the same for the take down screw. How does the crown of the barrel look? Try switching rings or mounts...

 

[Grizzly_A]

Crown looks good. A bit dirty, but the powder marks are a nice little star on the crown.
V-block is tight I don't think it's ever been removed from the receiver.
The rest of my rings are mounted so I don't have any spares.

I will try some CCI.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

In my experience the factory 10/22 barrels are often cr@p.. if nothing simple works, try an aftermarket barrel. I have Clerke 16 inch barrels and my buddy has a 20 inch Butler Creek barrel, both of us can do 1/2 MOA at 100 yards..!

 

[phathom]

Reading this, I feel lucky to have an old Sears JC Higgens .22 that shoots anything I feed it accurately as 1x1 everytime through iron sights.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Reading this, I feel lucky to have an old Sears JC Higgens .22 that shoots anything I feed it accurately as 1x1 everytime through iron sights.

The best shooting semi .22 I ever had was a 1960s era Winchester semi auto

The MAS 45 trainer I have is even more accurate, but no way to scope it to get the full potential. In a contest once I literally shot the carpet tack out as I got the first shot at a tiny post it target at 25 yards. The tack was placed there to keep the post it on the backer. Ammo was Eley match

 

[Weebs]

griz is this your 10/22 you brought out last range day or another?

 

[jib]

My first thought is the scope mount, my 2nd is how clean is the bore ? were there any elongated holes on the target(more distance maybe required) my 3rd thought is some funky pressure on the barrel from the stock and ring, it could be all or some or none of the above

 

[Grizzly_A]

griz is this your 10/22 you brought out last range day or another?

Nope, that one was different.

My first thought is the scope mount, my 2nd is how clean is the bore ? were there any elongated holes on the target(more distance maybe required) my 3rd thought is some funky pressure on the barrel from the stock and ring, it could be all or some or none of the above

Scope mount is tight, as are the rings. The bore is clean.

Elongated holes typically mean bullet yaw if I'm not mistaken which happens when the bullet loses stability typically at the end of it's effective range or when the velocity/twist rate isn't sufficient for the bullet being used. In this case we were shooting at about 30yds.

Funky pressure was my thought as well, but I will try some CCI (when I get some time and the wind isn't blowing) with and without the barrel band and see how it does.

 

[timbernet]

Funky pressure was my thought as well, but I will try some CCI (when I get some time and the wind isn't blowing) with and without the barrel band and see how it does.

Yesterday would have been a great day to try it out.... too busy with the kids?

 

[GUNNY]

My 10/22 had problems like that also. I found out that the .22 has no feed ramps so the bullet hits the brl when loading and smashes the bottom of the bullet tip, take a dremmel and put some feed ramps on it. Then switch to varmint loads.

 

[the4thshake]

A 10/22 doesn't need feed ramps. Grinding on the chamber is a very bad idea. If the gun isn't chambering rounds properly, it is most likely a magazine issue. Aftermarket magazines are to blame for many 10/22 feeding issues. Stick with the factory rotory mag for reliability.

 

[GUNNY]

when i say feed ramp i dont mean a large cal style feed ramp, it's more deburring than anyting if you chamber a round in a fact .22 chamber it like the gun operating and then remove the live round and look at the tip you can see where it hit's the barrel. it's a small amount but it can effect accuracy

 

[Grizzly_A]

Got a little bit of a break between rain showers and some peace and quiet (not for my neighbors though, lol) and ran a couple more shots down this 10/22.



The center target was the first group with CCI MiniMag HP with the Barrel Band. Last round was a flyer as you can see, bottom one. 4 shots.

The target to the right was the 2nd group with the Barrel Band removed. Same Ammo as first target. 4 shots.

The target on the left was from CCI Factory 2nds that picked up at a gun show and thought I'd see how they shoot. (I made a smiley face)


Not bad, though I did remove the scope bases from the rail for a couple of days and then reinstalled it. POI didn't seem to move though. Next Steps? Move it a little more to the right, try some federal/ELEY/Wolf MT, leave the barrel band off.

 

[timbernet]

Barrel band on the CCI factory 2nds?

 

[Grizzly_A]

In my experience the factory 10/22 barrels are often cr@p.. if nothing simple works, try an aftermarket barrel. I have Clerke 16 inch barrels and my buddy has a 20 inch Butler Creek barrel, both of us can do 1/2 MOA at 100 yards..!

1/2 MOA groups at 100 yds with BC and Clerke barrels? I'll need to see pictures of course! Do you have pics of the gun, and targets showing multiple 5 shot groups?

 

[Grizzly_A]

Barrel band on the CCI factory 2nds?

Barrel band was off after the first group was shot.

 

[the4thshake]

With the barrel band off, the action can rock in the stock. If you want to delete the band it is best to free float the barrel and glass bed the action. The link below shows how to bed a 10/22.

http://www.ruger22.com/newpages/bed.htm

Your gun with the factory barrel probably is capable of 2 MOA at best. There is a good reason why people replace the factory barrels.

 

[Grizzly_A]

If these targets are shot at 30 yards then you desperately need a new barrel and some trigger work. If this was at 100 yards then I wouldn't worry about it. I would just zero it for 50-75 yards and find which ammo shoots best.

At 100 yards there are so many factors that can spread the group size of a 22. Wind and ammo consistency are going to be a battle for sure.

I agree that trigger work would help a great deal, but I'm not giving up on the barrel yet as I've only ran Tbolts, Xperts, and some CCI through it. I know some barrels just need some love before they become tomato stakes.

With the barrel band off, the action can rock in the stock. If you want to delete the band it is best to free float the barrel and glass bed the action.

Your gun with the factory barrel probably is capable of 2 MOA at best. There is a good reason why people replace the factory barrels.

I've heard that taking the band off helps it shoot tighter groups as there is no longer pressure on the barrel, but in some cases it makes it shoot worse. Depends on the gun. Anytime you've got the entire gun resting on a 1" somewhat flat portion of the bedding block in the stock you're going to get some movement.

 

[gophishhhh]

Grizzly,
you most likely have a couple small things going on that will result in poor accuracy. there is nothing wrong with leaving a barrel band is placy, if that is the look your after. pulling down on the muzzle end of a barrel is not ideal in big bore rifles due to the harmonics created with high velocity calibers (above 1800fps). in a 22lr this is not such a problem, but keeping the action secure and having a good chamber is. depending on the receiver to stock fit, the receiver may be moving at the rear everytime you pull the trigger. the vertical movement of the receiver is controlled via the upper/back section of the trigger assy, locking in place when the action is placed into the stock. if there is excessive clearance in this area, the action will flex upwards everytime you pull the trigger. this can be dealt with by either bedding the action or a much simpler way is to pin the rear of the action (on the inside of the stock, so its not seen).
typical factory chambers are usually the biggest culprit when talking about poor accuracy. the factory 10/22 chamber is about .075" deeper than it need to be for shooting most ammo. if you plan on shooting the "super" high velocity ammo's like CCI stingers, you need this deep chamber to ensure that the gun runs properly and you dont get slam fires. if shooting your typical "high velocity" bulk ammo is what your going to do, then i would reccomend a re-chamber of your factory barrel. this is done by setting back the chamber end of the barrel, then re-cutting the chamber to either a Bentz or a Match chamber. if these two things are dealt with, your 10/22 should be able to consistantly shoot 1" or better out to 50yrds using cheap bulk ammo's.
if your looking to get all you can out of the 10/22, there are a cuople other things that should be dealt with, namely the bolt headspace.
if you would like to try a barrel that has been re-chambered, i have an extra one you can try out and i am located pretty close to Clackamas.
sorry for the long winded post.
B