Yet another businesses leaves Portland

[JRuby]

I understand why Wheeler is not running for re- election. In my opinion he should be brought up on negligence charges for the pitiful job he has done.

 

[Mikej]

Downtown Portland’s office vacancy rate is highest in the nation, report says

Portland’s central city’s office vacancy rate reached 30.2% by the end of 2023.

www.oregonlive.com

The good side to that is short cutting down from Sylvan on 26 in the center lane, to Market St, to Front Ave and Morrison bridge, to 12th and up to Sandy is much less frustrating than the freeway. Should call it "SLUGway" instead.

 

[raftman]

Downtown Portland’s office vacancy rate is highest in the nation, report says

Portland’s central city’s office vacancy rate reached 30.2% by the end of 2023.

www.oregonlive.com

And yet Portland apologists will still insist, "It's like this everywhere!"

 

[JRuby]

And yet Portland apologists will still insist, "It's like this everywhere!"

Many places are having problems it is just that Portland is leading the way. You might even say they are excelling on thier way to the bottom.

 

[OldTengu]

I've told some of you guys that I've been a building super downtown for the last several years. When I came down here, most of my buildings were mostly vacant. Now pretty much all of the office spaces are vacant, and we're seeing the tenants we have left leaving. I have a feeling the downtown core is going to be pearl district part two soon. No one wants to work down here, and if you have a giant office building with no one in it, it's just a giant schitty investment. I'm betting we'll start seeing building owners gaming out the costs of converting to residential.

 

[JRuby]

My suggestion - make downtown safe and you will start to see some things come back. The mayor misses this point.

 

[OldTengu]

My suggestion - make downtown safe and you will start to see some things come back. The mayor misses this point.

That's definitely part of it. Mostly I think it's that these buildings for the most part are very old and aren't modernized, and rents are constantly rising due to rising operating costs. You can rent a commercial space in neighboring cities and counties for a comparable rate and get more modern spaces as well as the added benefit of not having anyone pooping in the front door.

 

[raftman]

My suggestion - make downtown safe and you will start to see some things come back. The mayor misses this point.

I do have to laugh at some of the mayor's past proposals for revitalizing downtown, such as more days in the week with free parking… as if it's those darn parking meters that keep people away.

It's like imagining someone out there is thinking, "I'd sure love to visit Mogadishu but those darn hotel taxes are just so high!"

Hyperbole to be sure, but barely.

 

[The Heretic]

I do have to laugh at some of the mayor's past proposals for revitalizing downtown, such as more days in the week with free parking… as if it's those darn parking meters that keep people away.

It's like imagining someone out there is thinking, "I'd sure love to visit Mogadishu but those darn hotel taxes are just so high!"

Hyperbole to be sure, but barely.

I am sure they don't actually think that it is parking meters that are the problem - it is just a ploy to distract from the real problems.

 

[Mikej]

My suggestion - make downtown safe and you will start to see some things come back. The mayor misses this point.

I wouldn't think that safety is a big issue during the day. We have been through downtown potland a lot more in the last 2 years than we were in the previous 15 years. During the day, the place is just dirty. Kind of depressing. You really only need to see a couple of people in rags with one shoe. Their eyes are dead, nobody home. Walk by, just one, doorway and see the urine puddled in the entryway to a business that closed two years ago. The city is dead compared to 20 years ago. The mayor can't do anything. Especially THIS mayor. The damage is done. What do you think? Twenty years MAYBE? To get something back in the way of a healthy city? That would mean the city would have to "Lure" people to take a chance on new policy. But Oregon policy seems to be jack prices up on everything because of what they have lost here!
Butt-hey, we seem to be on-track to getting traffic further stifled with the "Vision-Zero" program. Or, as it's turned out. "Zero-Vision"

 

[OldTengu]

I do have to laugh at some of the mayor's past proposals for revitalizing downtown, such as more days in the week with free parking… as if it's those darn parking meters that keep people away.

It's like imagining someone out there is thinking, "I'd sure love to visit Mogadishu but those darn hotel taxes are just so high!"

Hyperbole to be sure, but barely.

That one got me too, because while they did suggest more free parking days, they closed the largest city run parking garage downtown because it cost too much to staff and maintain. The even goofier thing about that is that parking fees are something like 50% of pbots income.

 

[Mikej]

That one got me too, because while they did suggest more free parking days, they closed the largest city run parking garage downtown because it cost too much to staff and maintain.

Good Lord! Going into a parking garage in potland? Not if you paid me! Ish.

 

[Barefootdog]

I've told some of you guys that I've been a building super downtown for the last several years. When I came down here, most of my buildings were mostly vacant. Now pretty much all of the office spaces are vacant, and we're seeing the tenants we have left leaving. I have a feeling the downtown core is going to be pearl district part two soon. No one wants to work down here, and if you have a giant office building with no one in it, it's just a giant schitty investment. I'm betting we'll start seeing building owners gaming out the costs of converting to residential.

That's definitely part of it. Mostly I think it's that these buildings for the most part are very old and aren't modernized, and rents are constantly rising due to rising operating costs. You can rent a commercial space in neighboring cities and counties for a comparable rate and get more modern spaces as well as the added benefit of not having anyone pooping in the front door.

These investors/owners of these commercial buildings....How are they getting along with the bankers/investors holding the mortgage documents on their 30+% vacant buildings? 30% vacancy affects value....affects the ability to conform to mortgage/line of credit underwriting guidelines for rewriting existing debt or creating new debt.

...and it's not just one or two buildings affected with high vacancies.

You mention conversion to residential...not a bad option in some cases.....but where's the money going to come from to finance the conversion on buildings with already underwater mortgage indebtedness?

WADR I don't see this ending well. It's not just the value based upon the proposed residential use.....it will be a proposed residential use further encumbered by non income friendly use restrictions and cost overhead imposed by the social justice socialists in the city planning/development departments.

I think this story is going to get a lot more interesting before it gets better.
This is a government created slow motion train wreck.

 

[CamoDeafie]

we'll start seeing building owners gaming out the costs of converting to residential.

Zoning?

My suggestion - make downtown safe and you will start to see some things come back. The mayor misses this point.

This is a big point. Make it safe, and attractive for businesses to invest in Oregon. The complete opposite of how things are going right now.

You mention conversion to residential...not a bad option in some cases.....but where's the money going to come from to finance the conversion on buildings with already underwater mortgage indebtedness?

Don't forget, zoning? I don't believe that a lot of these office spaces are zoned for residential suites or condos in addition to office/retail space zoning.

 

[OldTengu]

These investors/owners of these commercial buildings....How are they getting along with the bankers/investors holding the mortgage documents on their 30+% vacant buildings? 30% vacancy affects value....affects the ability to conform to mortgage/line of credit underwriting guidelines for rewriting existing debt or creating new debt.

...and it's not just one or two buildings affected with high vacancies.

You mention conversion to residential...not a bad option in some cases.....but where's the money going to come from to finance the conversion on buildings with already underwater mortgage indebtedness?

WADR I don't see this ending well. It's not just the value based upon the proposed residential use.....it will be a proposed residential use encumbered by use restrictions and cost overhead imposed by the social justice socialists in the city planning/development departments.

I think this story is going to get a lot more interesting before it gets better.
This is a government created slow motion train wreck.

Most of mine are completely vacant aside from ground floor retail/restaurants.
As far as all of the mortgage stuff, I don't know for sure. I know there are some buildings downtown (not ours) that the owners took loans against and then defaulted on. I can tell you that conversion costs in some of the very old (120+ y.o.) buildings would be astronomical, if only on the basis of having to remove all the lead and asbestos. Probably would be cheaper in most cases to knock them down and build on the footprint.

 

[OldTengu]

Zoning?

This is a big point. Make it safe, and attractive for businesses to invest in Oregon. The complete opposite of how things are going right now.

Don't forget, zoning? I don't believe that a lot of these office spaces are zoned for residential suites or condos in addition to office/retail space zoning.

Right, you would have to apply for new zoning after having architects come through and design a new layout. Part of the process of gaming that out.
Edit:
A good portion of the condo buildings in the pearl were formerly commercial buildings, either office or otherwise. In the case of the Avenue lofts, it was the original Meier and Frank warehouse, I believe something similar for the Marshall Wells lofts. Honeyman hardware lofts as well.

 

[raftman]

I am sure they don't actually think that it is parking meters that are the problem - it is just a ploy to distract from the real problems.

True. It's about denying and deflecting from the real issue so as avoid responsibility and thus not be voted out. Another fun example I've run across is when a once-thriving business leaves downtown, they'll say things like, "Well, their customer base belongs to an aging demographic that must have retired and moved out to the suburbs." They'll entertain any explanation except the real one.

 

[CamoDeafie]

very old (120+ y.o.) buildings

And thats without running afoul of those people who think only of "preserving historical" buildings

 

[OldTengu]

And thats without running afoul of those people who think only of "preserving historical" buildings

That does add another layer of difficulty. If one of the buildings was on the national historic building registry, then the owner would have to be willing to give up the tax breaks that come with owning such a building and keeping it as close to its original layout and function as possible.
When people suggest dumping the homeless into them, I don't think many people realize the volume of renovations even that would require.

 

[oremike]

I thought Kotex made a decision from on high about converting vacant commercial to housing for the less than sheltered?