Wifey's Build Thread....

[Mikej]

What do we think of .223 Wylde? And 2" more barrel?
PSA 18" Rifle-Length .223 Wylde 1/7 Stainless Steel 15" Lightweight M-Lok Upper with MBUS Sight Set, BCG, & CH - 5165448415

Also, that "Daily Deal" is back on the pencil barrel with sights.

All the info on these uppers, and no weight listed?

 

[EPS]

I knew there was something I was forgetting to add to my list!

Thankfully, generic low-pro gas blocks are fairly inexpensive, and so are gas tubes. The key there is to either buy locally or from a company with free shipping.

For those that don't follow PSA too closely, those guys have really been expanding their production capabilities over the years. A fairly recent video said they have their own forging machine for upper receivers now, too!

And try to get a adjustable gas block.
It will help out in the long run if it's over gas or under gas .
Or if you want a suppreser later

 

[titsonritz]

And try to get a adjustable gas block.
It will help out in the long run if it's over gas or under gas .
Or if you want a suppreser later

An adjustable gas block does nothing for you if you are undergassed, they can only decrease the available gas it is impossible to increase.

That said, I've got no use for them, but than I don't play guessing games with port size.

 

[EPS]

An adjustable gas block does nothing for you if you are undergassed, they can only decrease the available gas it is impossible to increase.

That said, I've got no use for them, but than I don't play guessing games with port size.

You are right about the under gassed.
But if he wants to use a suppreser it could help out with adjusting it .
I really don't know I don't own a suppreser.
I have Adjustable gas block on a few guns.
They do help out .
When you get a barrel that is over gassed.
It's give and take here .
Some people like them some don't

 

[EPS]

I got a gun that is under gassed .

I'm probably going to have to drill the port.
Short barrel and it will not cycle.
I have tried everything I can light spring light buffer heavy buffer heavy spring mix and match the stuff it just won't work.
It has a adjustable block open all the way closed it down.
Lol it's a year now .
Of trying different stuff .
Can't get it to work.
I mess with it a little bit every time we go shooting.
After 20 or 30 minutes I put it away.
And come home to try something else

 

[titsonritz]

For those that don't follow PSA too closely, those guys have really been expanding their production capabilities over the years. A fairly recent video said they have their own forging machine for upper receivers now, too!

The problem is their QC has not, pumping 'em out doesn't mean much if its pumping out crap.

 

[titsonritz]

I got a gun that is under gassed .

I'm probably going to have to drill the port.
Short barrel and it will not cycle.
I have tried everything I can light spring light buffer heavy buffer heavy spring mix and match the stuff it just won't work.
It has a adjustable block open all the way closed it down.
Lol it's a year now .
Of trying different stuff .
Can't get it to work.
I mess with it a little bit every time we go shooting.
After 20 or 30 minutes I put it away.
And come home to try something else

Unless running seriously crap ammo, very few barrel will be undergassed, most go the other way. Is the gas block properly aligned? It is a common mistake to butt a gas block against the gas block journal shoulder and not make up the the space used to accommodate the forward handguard cap or even rotated off the 12 o'clock position, this can happen when the barrel isn't dimpled properly while using set screws.

For overgassed issues check out CustomTune Gas Port :: Black River Tactical

 

[turq]

"Pencil barrels" need a weight. That way we can tell apples from oranges.
ARP has a 223Wylde melonite coated for like $179
Site has a lot of info on what exactly the wylde Chamber is and exactly what you get;.750 gas block and .700 and .700 final
Something around 1lb 12oz.
Best on your build!

 

[DirectDrive]

What do we think of .223 Wylde? And 2" more barrel?
PSA 18" Rifle-Length .223 Wylde 1/7 Stainless Steel 15" Lightweight M-Lok Upper with MBUS Sight Set, BCG, & CH - 5165448415

Also, that "Daily Deal" is back on the pencil barrel with sights.

All the info on these uppers, and no weight listed?

It's not just this.... "What do we think of .223 Wylde? And 2" more barrel?"
It's those two words "rifle length".

What we are actually talking about here is a rifle length gas system with 2 inches of "dwell" chopped off.
"Dwell" is the time that the gas system is under pressure so it can cycle the BCG (bolt carrier group).
Dwell doesn't start until the bullet passes the barrel's gas port.
The rifle-length gas system was the original M16 gas system and was designed for a 20 inch barrel.

So this barrel may work OK, or may need full power ammo 24-7, 365 to run it.
It may not cycle well with lower power .223 ammo, for example.

So the moral of the story is to understand the various AR "gas system lengths" and which barrel lengths that they work with the best.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

The problem is their QC has not, pumping 'em out doesn't mean much if its pumping out crap.

I haven't seen or heard of any major QA issues from PSA lately, and they sell a LOT of uppers. Biggest gripe I've seen over the last year is that barrel nuts are almost impossible to remove, but that's a known issue with BCM as well. BCM also had a batch of BCGs with horrible machining, and told customers they were "in spec". I've seen reports of Colts breaking bolts within 5,000 rounds, and reports from Battlefield Las Vegas that their 10.5" PSA uppers are running strong on an extreme FA firing schedule, and they plan to buy more.

Most of the PSA stories I've heard are just that; stories.

Not trying to call you out, but I am honestly curious; how many issues have you personally had with PSA products?

Personally, I've had no issues at all with any uppers, though out of the many lower parts kits I've used, I have had a two small parts that were machined incorrectly. Both were replaced without question. In fact, I had a bad disconnect and they sent an entire FCG as a replacement.

Very few barrel will be undergassed, most go the other way. Is the gas block properly aligned? It is a common mistake to butt a gas block against the gas block journal shoulder and not make up the the space used to accommodate the forward handguard cap or even rotated off the 12 o'clock position, this can happen when the barrel isn't dimpled properly while using set screws.

Personally, I prefer to butt gas blocks up against the shoulder, but so far I haven't found any where the gas block port was small enough to obstruct the barrel gas port. All have had more than enough clearance so far, but maybe I've just been lucky so far.

As for suppressors, the only AR I have with an AGB is a .300BLK; everything else has a regular gas block and runs without issue. If building from scratch though, there's really no reason not to spend the extra $20 or so and start with an AGB. The only reason I didn't on mine is BA included a drilled gas block and roll pin, so I used that.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

So the moral of the story is to understand the various AR "gas system lengths" and which barrel lengths that they work with the best.

Absolutely, and I will also add the need to understand that the gas system and buffer system are two completely separate systems. A rifle length gas system does not require a rifle buffer, just as a carbine length gas system does not require a carbine buffer. Treat them as two separate systems.

Balance the gas system length with barrel length and dwell time, exactly as DirectDrive just described. The only major variations come into play when dealing with other calibers; the 5.56 gas system has already been dialed in and we know what works at this point.

I also agree 100% with titsonritz regarding mid-length gas systems. I see no reason whatsoever to run a carbine length gas system on a 16" barrel, as all it does is make the weapon beat itself to death faster.

For buffers, that's more dependent on your choice of stocks, though again I agree with titsonritz that the Vltor A5 system truly is the best of both worlds! Myself, being a notorious cheapskate, am running standard carbine buffers in everything except my .300BLK. Even my 20" 5.56 & 6.5 Grendel run just fine with carbine buffers!

I love the versatility of the AR platform, but understand all too well how overwhelming it is when first jumping in. Just like suppressors, I held back for years before I finally got brave enough to test the water.

Come on in, the water's just fine!

 

[Mikej]

It's not just this.... "What do we think of .223 Wylde? And 2" more barrel?"
It's those two words "rifle length".

What we are actually talking about here is a rifle length gas system with 2 inches of "dwell" chopped off.
"Dwell" is the time that the gas system is under pressure so it can cycle the BCG (bolt carrier group).
Dwell doesn't start until the bullet passes the barrel's gas port.
The rifle-length gas system was the original M16 gas system and was designed for a 20 inch barrel.

So this barrel may work OK, or may need full power ammo 24-7, 365 to run it.
It may not cycle well with lower power .223 ammo, for example.

So the moral of the story is to understand the various AR "gas system lengths" and which barrel lengths that they work with the best.

THIS ^^ makes sense to me. I won't mess with a longer barrel.

Thank you!

 

[DirectDrive]

THIS ^^ makes sense to me. I won't mess with a longer barrel.

Thank you!

If I was doing rifle gas, I would probably do a 20" barrel (original Viet Nam era M16)
Mid gas is great for a 16" barrel.
And carbine gas was designed around a 14.5" barrel (think M4)

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

If I was doing rifle gas, I would probably do a 20" barrel (original Viet Nam era M16)
Mid gas is great for a 16" barrel.
And carbine gas was designed around a 14.5" barrel (think M4)

And to complicate matters further, there is an "intermediate" gas system between mid-length and rifle length just for 18" barrels, but I think only a few companies make them.

10.5" = Pistol
14.5" = Carbine
16" = Mid-Length
18" = Intermediate (Often found with Rifle Gas)
20" = Rifle

Running the next size up gas system (14.5" Mid, 18" Rifle) does tend to make it shoot smoother, but it might be more finicky with weak loads. It is a great option for reducing gas if you always plan to run suppressed, though.

I have an 18" barrel with rifle gas that I haven't assembled yet, so I'm looking forward to testing it once it's built.

One interesting side note is that other low pressure cartridges like the .300BLK tend to use pistol length gas systems regardless of barrel length, and my 18" Grendel barrel uses a mid-length gas system. If you ever get into variant calibers, you need to pay very close attention to the description, specifically the gas system and twist rate.

 

[titsonritz]

Not trying to call you out, but I am honestly curious; how many issues have you personally had with PSA products?

Not a problem there, I don't butt hurt easy. An advantage of being armorer trained is one doesn't have to personally have issues to know them. I personally haven't had those issues yet because I typically do not buy PSA products. I say "yet" & "typically" because I recently bought a new PSA mid-length upper for $200 shipped because I want to build a cut-away, I was going use a myriad of spare parts and source an el-cheapo stripped upper, BCG and burnt-out barrel but for 2 bills I decided to hit the easy button and as a bonus can run the snot out of it before it goes under the knife to see what it will do.

A side-by-side comparison of my BCM, Centurion, Colt, SIONIC, SOLGW stuff is no comparison at all. The BCG feels like someone threw in a hand full of sand, although it is beginning to smooth out a touch from shooting it. The carrier key staking is almost non-existent. The A2 flash suppressor and changing handle are cheap cheesy Chicom knockoff garabe. I wanted an FSP from the cut-out so at least that is pinned, but I'd lay money there is no parkerizing under it. I know the gas port is Stormy Daniel sized from shooting it but haven't pin gauged it, I will prior to surgery. No clue on the barrel nut, but it shoots straight so it can't be stupid tight or loose. Part of me wants to correct the issues I see and check/confirm ones I suspect but part of my wants to say screw it and see if or how long it takes to start having issues.

In addition to what I've observed on my upper and what I've seen in classes, I've worked on a few for friends that were having problems. One was loose a carrier key, no doubt a result of the similar crappy staking on mine. Not trusting the fasteners, I replaced them and staked them and was up and running. I saw two that had their LPGB come loose because there was no barrel dimple, no Loctite and a non-knurled screw. Just a couple weeks ago a guy had a hand tight barrel nut. I've seen lowers with crooked buffer retainer pin slots out of spec and causing the entire edge of the buffer to get beat to snot and worn, PSA's solution was to send him a new buffer that was chamfered (a standard POS carbine buffer, not even an H buffer, which is SOP and another complaint of mine).

I know they buy components that have been rejected from companies like Colt. At an armorers course I took an industry professional (who I shall not name) was also in attendance, he used to work for a lower tier manufacturer and he said they were building complete guns in 12 minutes and mentioned there was very little QC, 30-45 minutes depending on configuration is reasonable. At 12 minutes I don't expect home runs.

I'm not saying everything they put out is complete garbage, I'm saying there is a higher percentage of getting garbage than say Colt or BCM. Does it happen with them too? Yep, just a lot less.

 

[titsonritz]

And to complicate matters further, there is an "intermediate" gas system between mid-length and rifle length just for 18" barrels, but I think only a few companies make them.

Noveske, Black River Tactical, KAC to name a few and they are not just for 18" barrel. I plan to pick up a 16" from BRT.

 

[titsonritz]

Running the next size up gas system (14.5" Mid, 18" Rifle) does tend to make it shoot smoother, but it might be more finicky with weak loads. It is a great option for reducing gas if you always plan to run suppressed, though.

That is the sweet spot IMO. I don't get weak loads, I thought 5.56/.223 was weak enough.

I have an 18" barrel with rifle gas that I haven't assembled yet, so I'm looking forward to testing it once it's built.

If you feel like making a trip OC I'll pin gauge it for you.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

That is the sweet spot IMO. I don't get weak loads, I thought 5.56/.223 was weak enough.



If you feel like making a trip OC I'll pin gauge it for you.

I might have to take you up on that.

I'm not sure how many parts PSA is outsourcing these days, as they've been trying to bring everything in-house. I know FN still does their CHF barrels, and I believe Toolcraft makes some of their bolt carriers. They'll occasionally use a Geiselle or 2A Armament rail, but I believe most of their rails and barrels are manufactured by PSA now.

I have one of their FN CHF uppers and it's phenomenal! My 10.5" Nitride upper is also doing well.

I think their reputation took the biggest hit when they had that atrocious PTAC line with sewer pipes for barrels. I won't argue with your opinion as an armorer, but as a consumer, I personally think they've redeemed themselves and I have no reservations in purchasing another PSA upper.

They really are one of the best deals on the market right now, considering it's been entirely possible to build $300 ARs with their sale prices.

I've seriously been tempted to grab a few more kits for a rainy day, but I have enough unfinished projects as it is!

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

That is the sweet spot IMO. I don't get weak loads, I thought 5.56/.223 was weak enough.

Most of the steel cased ammo is on the weak side, and PMC is notoriously underpowered. If it runs them, it should run anything!

 

[Spec.-K]

The guys from Forgotten Weapons and InRange TV did a segment called "What Would Stoner Do" (WWSD) where they evaluated different parts for a lightweight build. It's worth checking out.
As a gun nerd, I was suprised to find that I had chosen almost identical parts for my lightweight build.