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When we lived in TX I was surprised to learn that there is a patch flying motorsickle gang Called the Iron Pigs comprised entirely of L.E. :eek:
There are a bunch of colors wearing LEO and Christian MC clubs. I've known lots of folks in these and they are only pure riders, no gang stuff in the slightest. I don't know them all, and if there is one affiliated with gang stuff that is truly horrible.
 
There are a bunch of colors wearing LEO and Christian MC clubs. I've known lots of folks in these and they are only pure riders, no gang stuff in the slightest. I don't know them all, and if there is one affiliated with gang stuff that is truly horrible.
I remember one such MC got into some legal trouble n AZ years ago when I lived there.

 
Rascal & Willamette,

Thanks for taking the time to post about this very serious question.

Now, which hypothesis is best regarding having a lawyer present or not during the time you're questioned by Law Enforcement after you're involved in a self defense shooting?

If I read the two posts correctly, what I took away is: 1. Always have a lawyer present when being questioned.

2. No, don't have a lawyer present as it makes you look guilty...wing it if your innocent, get a lawyer if you're guilty as that what the guilty always do...

Do I have that right or ...?

Thanks!

I'm going to go with "Or."

People see this differently. My view is that you:

Should discuss this with an attorney before you are ever in a shooting incident. They will know your local laws.

Should get legal representation as soon as possible after the incident takes place. You do that to protect yourself. Besides law enforcement concerns, you may well be sued by interested parties.

You have the right to an attorney to be present during questioning. I like that. You know what was said, the police know what was said, and so does the attorney. That should prevent future errors, mistakes or miscommunication.

Cooperate fully with police with the benefit of legal council.

This becomes a matter of perception. Appearing guilty because you have retained a lawyer does not make you guilty. There are a number of steps that you must pass through before being taken to trial. Those steps determine if you are even going to trial. If you have a valid case of self-defense and the shooting justified you should not even go to trial.

My view, as you have gathered, is that it is prudent to have a legal advisor to guide you through the process.

Others see this differently. Only you can decide what is best for you.
 
Rascal & Willamette,

Thanks for taking the time to post about this very serious question.

Now, which hypothesis is best regarding having a lawyer present or not during the time you're questioned by Law Enforcement after you're involved in a self defense shooting?

If I read the two posts correctly, what I took away is: 1. Always have a lawyer present when being questioned.

2. No, don't have a lawyer present as it makes you look guilty...wing it if your innocent, get a lawyer if you're guilty as that what the guilty always do...

Do I have that right or ...?

Thanks!
Sorry @MannyGlocks, missed your initial post on this. Think my view is pretty similar to @Rascal01 above. When some of my posts have noted I believe you should talk to the police initially, this conversation should be extremely limited in scope in my non-attorney opinion. But the important caveat Rascal pointed out above, talk with an attorney (or someone well versed in self defense cases) prior. We train with our firearms to the point of not having to think about holster draws, trigger press, reloads, etc., I believe we as a community of self defenders would benefit from studying and practicing/rehearsing/visioning what to do after a self defense use of force.

Police need to know what to look for to show you are innocent. They need to know about witnesses who can help show you are innocent. They should know that you are willing to assist in the prosecution of the person who just tried to harm/kill you. My plan is to give this this information and wait for an attorney before talking any further. In my wallet I carry my ACLDN card and the card for a firearms attorney. My wife will actually make the call to Marty...I mostly carry the information in case I need to make the calls for her.

As a trainer, I am passionate about this area of self defense training and preparedness. I believe our community of sheepdogs is underserved by a lack information and mythology with this subject matter. Ultimately we are all free to chose our own paths with respect to this area. Do I try to persuade students and people I care about (including the NWF community) to think about this area, even if they don't agree with me (which is completely fine, not saying I'm right on everything!)? Guilty.

Thanks for all you add to these discussions!!!
 
When some of my posts have noted I believe you should talk to the police initially, this conversation should be extremely limited in scope...
I think this is solid.
If possible, I would like to record (audio) the initial contact and questioning for the record and for my attorney. Give the basic information, but no more. The recording is to avoid any, uh... misunderstandings and of course, document the my responses (or lack thereof).
 
I would like to record (audio) the initial contact and questioning for the record and for my attorney.
Yes, absolutely. Great advice.

There was a case I heard about in class where someone made a frustrated statement that was sarcasm (essentially a confession). There was no recording so just the bare words were read from a transcript with no context. Didn't end well for the defendant. (And to other points, he should not have been talking to police without an attorney at this stage of the interview.)
 
There was no recording so just the bare words were read from a transcript with no context.
With all the texting and forum posting we do it should be obvious how easily context and nuance can be lost, misread, and/or ignored when raw text is reread without inflection.

I'll be installing an easy-to-access and use voice recorder on my phone before the day is out. I'm sure there's one pre-installed, but I have no clue how to get to it.
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this individual on this post so
please forgive me if I am (re) suggesting someone.
If you are seriously considering this subject please look up Regent University Law Professor James Duane
He has written a very compelling book called
"You Have the Right to Remain Innocent"
He is also featured on several YouTube videos.
Cheers my brothers and sisters.
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this individual on this post so
please forgive me if I am (re) suggesting someone.
If you are seriously considering this subject please look up Regent University Law Professor James Duane
He has written a very compelling book called
"You Have the Right to Remain Innocent"
He is also featured on several YouTube videos.
Cheers my brothers and sisters.

I posted links to both Professor Duane and Massad Ayoob in reply #56 in this thread here:
 

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