What’s with the 9mm pcc’s and 9mm AR pistols gaining favor for serious work?

[bgdawgrr]

The hassle is gone. Form 1'ing an SBR is a 10 minute job any more. It takes longer to roll your own fingerprints than it does to fill out the online form. Seriously order a hundred of so fingerprint cards from the ATF for free and a $7 amazon fingerprint pad. Approval is under a month these days. Since they took way the LEO signoff its nothing like it used to be

While SBR form 1 is real easy now, they do have several down sides to consider:

Many states you cannot have a loaded rifle in a vehicle and hunting regulations come into play in the wild. Braced "pistols" fall under concealed carry laws.
SBRs can't cross state lines the same way a pistol can. (Paperwork)
Don't need a trust or have the the same transfer issues with a braced pistol as with NFA items.
The $200 tax stamp would pay for your brace

With the quality of braces and adjustability now, IMHO, SBRs don't make sense until they come off the NFA. Even then, I like having a braced AR with me camping, when a SBR would be a (legal) no go.
In some situations "pistol">rifle.

 

[spookshack]

SBR's are a no go in Washington correct?

 

[wired]

You can own SBR's in Washington. You can buy them and you can make them.

Its really no big deal crossing state lines with a SBR . You just send them a email once a year with the stuff you want to travel with and give them an address somewhere in the state. You arent asking for approval. You are just notifying them. Ive even sent one in that had the longitude and latitude for the entire state and it was approved. In any case once you are in the state they cant tell you where to go in that state. Every January I send a 5320.20 for all my SBR's for the neighboring state. No big deal.

Screw trusts . They were a scam workaround. Individual is so easy now. As far as braces theres some that are OK but most are floppy , non adjustable and if you want to do competitive shooting are a no go. Rifle class is rifle class not braced pistol class. Some guns like MP5's scream for the factory collapsible and I still think AR's look stupid with that huge black thing on the back. MP5K's NEED the front vertical grip and you arent getting that with a pistol. As far as transferring a SBR no one does that. Sell it if you like later on as a title one pistol or put a long barrel on it. No NFA transfer necessary.

 

[bgdawgrr]

You can own SBR's in Washington. You can buy them and you can make them.

Its really no big deal crossing state lines with a SBR . You just send them a email once a year with the stuff you want to travel with and give them an address somewhere in the state. You arent asking for approval. You are just notifying them. Ive even sent one in that had the longitude and latitude for the entire state and it was approved. In any case once you are in the state they cant tell you where to go in that state. Every January I send a 5320.20 for all my SBR's for the neighboring state. No big deal.

Screw trusts . They were a scam workaround. Individual is so easy now. As far as braces theres some that are OK but most are floppy , non adjustable and if you want to do competitive shooting are a no go. Rifle class is rifle class not braced pistol class. Some guns like MP5's scream for the factory collapsible and I still think AR's look stupid with that huge black thing on the back. MP5K's NEED the front vertical grip and you arent getting that with a pistol. As far as transferring a SBR no one does that. Sell it if you like later on as a title one pistol or put a long barrel on it. No NFA transfer necessary.

View attachment 683297

For me, trust is for the ability to let others use my NFA items and for estate planning. My trust can "live" forever, so the kids, grandkids etc can have the things in them and hopefully avoid legal transfer hoops. I can also add things that may get banned or put on the NFA later, and still pass them on.
Example, anyone in the trust can use/posses my silencers without my presence. This may be helpful in a situation where we go shooting or camping in multiple cars and things get packed incorrectly.

 

[dwaineshort]

Misleading stat in my mind. I am sure pc weapons ( pistols in particular) make up a big majority in ownership. Also how many of these deaths were suicide or accidents from mis handling? This doesn't really point to a pistol caliber being the best for hd, it just means they are prevalent.

What I would say at this point is that a 9mm platform may be the best for some as a hd weapon and is certainly better than a baseball bat. For an out and about truck gun I still think it is a poor choice.

Come on dude you can't be this misinformed. Around 14,000 homicides per year almost 99% of them are with handguns. Most shootings occur within 5 yards, and only three to four shots were fired.
Even most mass killings are done with handguns the worst school shooting of all time was done with a handgun.

With the range that a rifle gives you as an advantage, good luck trying to convince a jury that you didn't murder somebody when you kill them 250 yards away.

I'm not saying having a rifle caliber as your truck gun is a bad idea, but at least be informed with real-life situations/data and not movie logic / scenarios.

 

[osprey]

when did we switch from home defense to homicide and school shootings?Concealability is why I daily carry a 9mm or .40 cal pistol and not a 11" AR pistol in a more potent chambering. In most instances I am not hemmed in by concealment at home so why not a more decisive round? If 9mm works for you great go with it by all means. It just seems with the popularity of some of these 9mm platforms somehow the cartridges limitations are being overshadowed.

 

[Unicykle]

when did we switch from home defense to homicide and school shootings?Concealability is why I daily carry a 9mm or .40 cal pistol and not a 11" AR pistol in a more potent chambering. In most instances I am not hemmed in by concealment at home so why not a more decisive round? If 9mm works for you great go with it by all means. It just seems with the popularity of some of these 9mm platforms somehow the cartridges limitations are being overshadowed.

For the most part were not denyings 9mm has limitations. After watching pretty much all of "active self protection's" videos and many many other videos of real life situations it pretty much doesnt matter what your shooting, once you start shooting back the perps pretty much tuck tail and bail

 

[Alexx1401]

While SBR form 1 is real easy now, they do have several down sides to consider:

Many states you cannot have a loaded rifle in a vehicle and hunting regulations come into play in the wild. Braced "pistols" fall under concealed carry laws.
SBRs can't cross state lines the same way a pistol can. (Paperwork)
Don't need a trust or have the the same transfer issues with a braced pistol as with NFA items.
The $200 tax stamp would pay for your brace

With the quality of braces and adjustability now, IMHO, SBRs don't make sense until they come off the NFA. Even then, I like having a braced AR with me camping, when a SBR would be a (legal) no go.
In some situations "pistol">rifle.

Now that I have tried a good brace I no longer have any desire to jump the hoops for an SBR. I was VERY much glad to hear how easy it is to just make a can though. Wife has long wanted one or two. Only hold back was the damn time. She is getting real onboard now. If this latest panic was not going on pretty sure we would already be doing it. We will set up the trust just so the kids could keep / sell as they wish the stuff we pay for. Getting ready to order up some parts now anyway. figure sooner or later some moron will commit some crime with one and the answer will of course be "we need another law"

 

[Alexx1401]

SBR's are a no go in Washington correct?

Sadly they will not let us have Full Auto here but so far the rest is fine. Once you shoot something with a good brace on it though the SBR hoops are not nearly as appealing. Unless you are wanting something a good brace is not easy to adapt onto maybe.

 

[spookshack]

Going to be putting a pistol AR shortly.. Got just about everything I need for completing the lower ( just got a pile of parts from JoeBob's today). As for braces, I went with the Sb3. Upper is about 2 weeks out from shipping.

 

[Alexx1401]

Going to be putting a pistol AR shortly.. Got just about everything I need for completing the lower ( just got a pile of parts from JoeBob's today). As for braces, I went with the Sb3. Upper is about 2 weeks out from shipping.

You should find it a LOT of fun. first one I put together I looked at a lot of the Braces. After reading several really good things about SB I finally decided to pay the extra and get one. I have been super happy with it. The whole deal is just too much damn fun to play with. Killing me here that I had enough forethought to lay in ammo and can't go shoot, Grrrrr. The day the range opens back up I will be one of the first customers

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'd like to see a brace that looks mighty similar to the old school Colt Commando 3 position stock....

Edit; this way, I can build an A1 or A2 10.5" .300blk pistol with fixed carry handle; and not look too goofy with just a stub or cheek weld pad SBR it is probably easiest; but I really would like to see a blade brace with the appearance and function of the 3 position old style stock

 

[osprey]

I see several of you are touting the increased velocity of the 9mm in a longer barrels putting them up around .357 mag velocities. While I believe this to be a valid point, I think it can be a problem for many 9mm sd projectiles, as most are designed to expand and penetrate within a certain velocity window. I think most hp/sd type 9mm bullets would open up too fast and not penetrate deeply enough when driven at .357 speeds. With testing you might get lucky and find ammo/9mm bullets that expand and penetrate adequately but I think the better option would be to reload 9mm cases using .357 projectiles designed for .357 mag velocities. A complete load workup would be required along with some experimenting with seating depth and crimping with lee fcd to get them to chamber properly. Just food for thought. This actually sounds like a fun project to me.

 

[bgdawgrr]

@CamoDeafie Look at the SB3 or SB4

@osprey

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[turbo_vanner]

lol, i would most definitely not like to get shot, even by a 9mm PCC. Would stop me in my tracks 100%.

 

[osprey]

@CamoDeafie Look at the SB3 or SB4

@osprey

[/QUOTE]
Good info, I had not seen that yet. One of my favorites (147 hst. ) performed great by vitue of not really having a velocity change in the longer barrel. It would still be interesting to get a 125 gr .357mag xtp bullet woofing out at 1350fps loaded up in a 9mm.

 

[flylo]

I'll take my 26" OAL 10 rd mag fed 14" barrel 12ga Mossberg Shockwave with a backup 20 rd over anything else for home defence. Handy, reliable & has a laser & light. my hands can shake & I'll still hit 'em with #4 buckshot.

 

[MrMillspecer]

I see several of you are touting the increased velocity of the 9mm in a longer barrels putting them up around .357 mag velocities. While I believe this to be a valid point, I think it can be a problem for many 9mm sd projectiles, as most are designed to expand and penetrate within a certain velocity window. I think most hp/sd type 9mm bullets would open up too fast and not penetrate deeply enough when driven at .357 speeds. With testing you might get lucky and find ammo/9mm bullets that expand and penetrate adequately but I think the better option would be to reload 9mm cases using .357 projectiles designed for .357 mag velocities. A complete load workup would be required along with some experimenting with seating depth and crimping with lee fcd to get them to chamber properly. Just food for thought. This actually sounds like a fun project to me.

It would be nice to see the results of the short barrels on rifle calibers and how loosing 600 ft lbs in a .223 from a 16" barrel to a 4" barrel affects expansion and so forth.

 

[osprey]

Lots of info/test vids out there with 10.5" barrels. Not too many with shorter than that. I think anything shorter than 10.5" is not very practical for any type of serious work and a 4" would be a fire breathing range toy.

 

[MrMillspecer]

Lots of info/test vids out there with 10.5" barrels. Not too many with shorter than that. I think anything shorter than 10.5" is not very practical for any type of serious work and a 4" would be a fire breathing range toy.

Just wondering what a AR pistol with a 10" barrel weighs ? And what kind of off hand accuracy your getting at say 25 yards.