What’s with the 9mm pcc’s and 9mm AR pistols gaining favor for serious work?

[osprey]

have you heard of someone saying 9mm sucks after getting shot by one?

Yes, cause they are alive to tell about it.

 

[spookshack]

So its sorta a blowback version of the AR style rotating bolt head action?

Yes. It's a soft shooter for sure.

 

[spookshack]

Using the ARC9 kits (Pmags) gives the AR9 a "proper" aesthetic look. At least to me anyway. YMMV

 

[CamoDeafie]

Gotta be honest... the Quarter Circle mp5 magazine version looks best of the options for AR9s and .45 ARs... colt mag AR9 next to Glock mag AR9, top is LaFrance .45 conversion? Then theres the LaFrance M16-k models that push mag to back of magwell, relatively.

 

[spookshack]

Scorpion mags are cheap AF. That would be a solid option.

 

[Alexx1401]

So its sorta a blowback version of the AR style rotating bolt head action?

Think of it as how a locked breach auto works compared to how a strait blow back works. Pistols like the 1911 are locked breech. Some have made pistols in larger calibers that were strait blow back. To do so they had to beef up the slide with enough weight to hold the action closed long enough. There is more "felt" recoil since it's all going into the one action of sending the bolt (slide) back. What they did here was again make the action a two part system. It was quite the idea some smart person came up with. Looking forward to be able to shoot one of these to see how much it "feels" different.

 

[Alexx1401]

Gotta be honest... the Quarter Circle mp5 magazine version looks best of the options for AR9s and .45 ARs... colt mag AR9 next to Glock mag AR9, top is LaFrance .45 conversion? Then theres the LaFrance M16-k models that push mag to back of magwell,

When I made my first 2 AR's I choose Glock only for the reason I already had a bunch of Glock mags in 9mm, 10mm and .45. Since I already had PCC's in all these calibers and all of them used Glock mags. With them constantly making noise of coming up with yet more mag bans I wanted to at least have everything use the mags I already had. If they come out with another damn ban, and do it like they did last time the price on the mags will of course again take off like a rocket. Whatever style anyone likes I would lay in some mags now. Even if you do not have the gun you want yet. If you know what you want get some mags as soon as this latest panic is over.

 

[wired]

So its sorta a blowback version of the AR style rotating bolt head action?

Yep. It's just an AR bolt with ramps cut in it and no gas system. Slows the bolt from opening but doesn't stop it.

 

[wired]

I am trying the taccom3g delayed blowback soon. I have the nfa lowers, so I want to increase dwell time to improve suppression. It is hearing safe, but I want to see about tweaking it.

The problem is the magazine height. To get it to work you'd have to get the mag to sit about 1/8" lower in the mag well. You can do that by notching the release but the NFA C9 stuff is real sloppy with MP5 mags already. They run but they are loosey goosey as it is. I love mine but I think you'll get comparable performance with a heavy buffer and 308 spring. Let us know how the taccom system works. Ive got a 3" barrel 9mm barrel Ive been meaning to build into something some day.

 

[wired]

Gotta be honest... the Quarter Circle mp5 magazine version looks best of the options for AR9s and .45 ARs... colt mag AR9 next to Glock mag AR9, top is LaFrance .45 conversion? Then theres the LaFrance M16-k models that push mag to back of magwell, relatively. View attachment 682123View attachment 682124View attachment 682125View attachment 682126

The issue with MP5 mags in AR magwells is the mags were designed to rock and lock and not straight insert. That and there is no provision for LRBHO. So they end up a bit sloppy in the mag well and the bolt doesnt stay open. Everybody wants Glock mags but to me they look silly at that angle and the way the rounds stack inside because of the reverse angle to accomodate the pistol grip of the Glock makes the rounds a total clusterF inside the mag. Colt/Uzi mags really are the best way to feed these things IMHO. Theyre easiers by an order of magnitude to load than the Glock mags, fit tight, have LRBHO and the ASC Colt mags are cheap and work plus the mag variations have been around a long time so theres a couple of good drum options. .

 

[cookie]

My dad a WWII vet never talked about going to war, as most didn't but the two things I remember him saying was that tanks were death traps and the 9mm killed lots of out soldiers.

 

[wired]

My dad a WWII vet never talked about going to war, as most didn't but the two things I remember him saying was that tanks were death traps and the 9mm killed lots of out soldiers.

My great grandfather couldn't shut up about WW I. Had the time of his life there. Spent a few years killing Germans in the British Army starting when he was 15 then a few years killing the Irish during the Irish revolution . Stone cold man that guy.

 

[cookie]

My great grandfather couldn't shut up about WW I. Had the time of his life there. Spent a few years killing Germans in the British Army starting when he was 15 then a few years killing the Irish during the Irish revolution . Stone cold man that guy.

Must have been a warrior. A couple of my friends who served in Vietnam enjoyed the death and destruction.

 

[wired]

Must have been a warrior. A couple of my friends who served in Vietnam enjoyed the death and destruction.

Yeah lived out his life as an L.A. county sheriff's deputy in South Central Los Angeles. Yeah, warrior. If he had been on the losing side they would have called him a war criminal.

 

[cookie]

One was a Helo pilot and one was a grunt.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

The problem is the magazine height. To get it to work you'd have to get the mag to sit about 1/8" lower in the mag well. You can do that by notching the release but the NFA C9 stuff is real sloppy with MP5 mags already. They run but they are loosey goosey as it is. I love mine but I think you'll get comparable performance with a heavy buffer and 308 spring. Let us know how the taccom system works. Ive got a 3" barrel 9mm barrel Ive been meaning to build into something some day.

I have the Glock versions, which as you say, look real silly. But they work okay.

 

[wired]

One distinct advantage I can think of is shot placement. No matter how much I practice with a 9mm handgun, I can never put shots on target as accurately as I can with a "PCC" type gun unless we're talking within 10 yards. Any round is going to be a show stopper if you can put the shot exactly where you want it so lethality becomes less of a question. No it's not going to take a guy out of the picture if you hit him in the shoulder or arm.

The question then comes down to what type of round you use and how effective it is. I personally don't understand long barreled PCCs though.. To me the advantage is in the compactness and long barrel kind of destroys that advantage. I have a build with a 5" barrel and most popular PCCs seem to be built around short barrels. Most of them also are built around larger capacity, 30rds+ magazines. If you can run it suppressed, even better. Lightweight, compact, accurate, high capacity and quiet.

By definition a PCC is pistol caliber carbine. A 16" barrel rifle. Then theres pistols which arent PCC's and SBR's which are under 16" . The PCC term gets thrown around to include a lot of stuff that it doesnt really apply to.

 

[CamoDeafie]

By definition a PCC is pistol caliber carbine. A 16" barrel rifle. Then theres pistols which arent PCC's and SBR's which are under 16" . The PCC term gets thrown around to include a lot of stuff that it doesnt really apply to.

A "carbine" by its very definition is a shouldered firearm with a shorter barrel than a "rifle"

That the ATF defines a rifle as having a minimum of 16" barrel has no other bearing on the term "carbine", except for a SBR. The U.S. military classes the 14.5" barreled M4 as a carbine and the 20" M16 series as a rifle but the ATF classes these two lines as machine guns due to having select fire/automatic mode

 

[wired]

Traditionally Carbine was the shortest length rifle in service. that usually meant 16" until the M4 came along. Not much difference. It never meant 5"

 

[Basedgreaser]

You get into the 10mm stuff and you get pretty limited in what you can do with magazines. Bolts and barrels are available though. 9mm is kind of tough to do as well. Theres Glock mags of course but it can be hit or miss on conversion blocks in standard lowers. It all related to how far the mag inserts in the mag well because the bolt in the delayed rotary is the same configuration as a normal DI bolt whereas blowbacks keep the mag higher in the well. Of course CMMG sells a dedicated 9mm lower for WAY too much money and the only difference between that and a standard 9mm lower is the position of the mag release and the fact ir doesnt have an ejector. You can always trim back the mag catch a bit in a dedicted 9mm lower but that makes for a sloppy mag in the well unless you fill in the notch in the mag with a little epoxy.

I did my 9mm on a existing SBR lower with a 5.5" CMMG guard bolt and barrel set and a tacfire conversion block . The mag sits just low enough to work.

You can always use endomags in a standard lower. CMMG sells a special version that works with their bolt and barrel setup. I would have led with that but I dont like them.

Ironically 45 is the easiest to do. FWIW you can run 45 Super in the 45 ACP rotary bolt setup which is all that 10mm power wise plus more goodness. Believe it or not you can even get 45 ACP mags from Olympic arms that work with a standard lower for like $50 a mag. Yeah , I thought they were out of business too. Nope. All they make is weird magazines now.

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9mm ...

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Olympic 45 mags...

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RMS Lower with rotary 45

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SBR lower with Macon Armory 45 conversion. CMMG rotary bolt and 8" barrel. Real tack driver

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And of course...Everyone's favorite . The Bullet Hose ®. 3" barrel 45 ACP blowback flamethrower/silencer destroyer.

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Doesnt macron armory do a "direct impingement" 45?