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Looks like the instrucor was right...

There is no law against carrying loaded magazines. In fact, Oregon has no law against carrying loaded rifles in your car. Localities may restrict loaded carry of firearms by persons without concealed handgun licenses, but only in public places, which your car is not. IMPORTANT UPDATE.THE OREGON COURT OF APPEALS HAS RULED THAT YOUR CAR IS A PUBLIC PLACE AND LOCAL PROHIBITIONS AGAINST OPEN CARRY APPLY IN YOUR CAR!


FILED: December 10, 2008

IN THE COURT OF APPEALS OF THE STATE OF OREGON

STATE OF OREGON,

Plaintiff-Respondent,

v.

BRYAN PATRICK WARD,

Defendant-Appellant.

Multnomah County Circuit Court
060749177
A133855

Thomas M. Ryan, Judge pro tempore.

Argued and submitted on August 27, 2008.

Erica Herb, Deputy Public Defender, argued the cause for appellant. On the brief were Peter Gartlan, Chief Defender, Legal Services Division, and Kristin Carveth, Deputy Public Defender, Office of Public Defense Services.

Rolf C. Moan, Assistant Attorney General, argued the cause for respondent. With him on the brief were Hardy Myers, Attorney General, and Mary H. Williams, Solicitor General.

Before Wollheim, Presiding Judge, and Ortega, Judge, and Carson, Senior Judge.

ORTEGA, J.

Affirmed.

ORTEGA, J.

Defendant appeals a judgment of conviction for possession of a loaded firearm in a public place. Portland City Code (PCC) 14A.060.010. On appeal, defendant assigns error to the trial court's denial of his motion in arrest of judgment.(1) He contends that, under state law, local governments may not prohibit a person from carrying a loaded firearm within a car on a public street. The state responds that state law allows local governments to prohibit such conduct. For the reasons that follow, we affirm.

The relevant facts are undisputed. One night, a Portland police officer observed defendant driving a car with a malfunctioning headlight. The officer attempted to follow defendant's car, but lost sight of the vehicle for a few moments. The officer then noticed defendant's car parked on the wrong side of the street. The officer approached the car and asked defendant for his driver license and proof of insurance. After a records check revealed that defendant was not insured, the officer informed defendant that his car would be towed incident to citing him for driving uninsured. The officer conducted an inventory of the car while waiting for the tow truck to arrive. During the inventory, he found an open backpack within which the handle of a pistol was immediately visible. After retrieving the weapon, the officer observed that it was loaded and arrested defendant.

Defendant was charged with violating PCC 14A.060.010, which provides in part:

"A. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or carry a firearm, in or upon a public place, including while in a vehicle in a public place, recklessly having failed to remove all the ammunition from the firearm."

(Boldface in original.) Generally, local governments have no authority to regulate firearms. See ORS 166.170(1) (vesting in the Legislative Assembly exclusive authority to regulate firearms "except as expressly authorized by state statute"). However, ORS 166.173 grants local governments limited power to regulate loaded firearms:

"(1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015.

"(2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:

"* * * * *

"(c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun."

For purposes of that statute, the term "public place" means

"a place to which the general public has access and includes, but is not limited to, hallways, lobbies and other parts of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence, and highways, streets, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds and premises used in connection with public passenger transportation."

ORS 161.015(1).

At trial, defendant contended that, although ORS 166.173(1) allows local governments to regulate loaded firearms in public places, the interior of a motor vehicle is not a "public place" as provided in ORS 161.015(10). He argued that, because a person has an expectation of privacy in his motor vehicle, that vehicle is not "a place to which the general public has access" within the meaning of ORS 161.015(10). Consequently, defendant asserted, local governments may not regulate loaded firearms that are kept inside motor vehicles. Defendant renews that argument on appeal. The state responds that defendant's focus on whether the general public has access to the interior of a motor vehicle is misplaced. According to the state, because ORS 161.015(10) defines streets and highways as public places, local governments may regulate the possession of a loaded firearm on their streets or highways, regardless of whether the firearm--while on the street or highway--is also inside a motor vehicle or other container.

The parties' arguments present a question of statutory construction that we resolve by examining the statute's text and context and, if necessary, by reviewing the legislative history and using pertinent maxims of statutory construction. PGE v. Bureau of Labor and Industries, 317 Or 606, 610-12, 859 P2d 1143 (1993). Because we conclude that the text and context of ORS 166.173 unambiguously demonstrate that local governments are permitted to regulate the possession of loaded firearms on their streets and highways, regardless of whether those firearms are kept in a place to which the general public does not have access, we do not examine the statute's legislative history.

When read together, ORS 166.173 and 161.015(1) clearly allow local governments to regulate the possession of loaded firearms on their streets and highways. Moreover, ORS 166.173(2)(c)--which exempts persons licensed to carry concealed weapons from local loaded firearms regulations--demonstrates that the legislature anticipated situations in which persons may possess concealed, loaded firearms in a public place. The legislature chose to exempt such persons from local regulations based on their possession of a certain type of permit, despite the fact that a concealed firearm, although otherwise in a "public place," is not kept in a place to which the "general public has access." By necessary implication, nothing in ORS 166.173 or ORS 161.015(10) supports defendant's contention that a loaded firearm, when carried in a public place, is outside the scope of local regulation merely because it is kept in a place to which the general public lacks access. Consequently, we have no difficulty concluding that, when the legislature enacted ORS 166.173, it intended to allow local governments to regulate the possession of loaded firearms on their streets and highways, even if such a firearm is kept in a place to which the general public has no access.

Because PCC 14A.060.010 is consistent with ORS 166.173, the trial court properly denied defendant's motion in arrest of judgment.

Affirmed.



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1. At trial, defendant moved for a judgment of acquittal. However, because defendant's motion challenged the validity of the city ordinance under which he was charged, we treat his motion as a premature motion in arrest of judgment. See State v. McKenzie, 307 Or 554, 560-61, 771 P2d 264 (1989) (where, in his motion for a judgment of acquittal, the defendant argued that the statute describing the offense with which he was charged was unconstitutionally vague, the motion was properly considered as a premature motion in arrest of judgment).


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Dunno - Maybe so, but being a furrener from WA, I'm not taking any chances. I'm assuming the Court of Appeals that this refers to is a state level entity? The instructor sure made it sound like it was statewide. I would think that you would probably know best, being from Oregon, but it seems like if you look away for a second, some anti-american gungrabber is poking their nose in and having the laws changed in retarded ways. Until TSHTF, I'll try to comply with the stupid BS to the best of my ability.
 
That court case is irrelevant to what we're talking about. The perp's car was being taken for lack of insurance, so an inventory of his car was taken. I already said that if you're arrested they'll search your car. They also search (take an inventory) if they impound the car. During the taking of inventory a loaded gun was found and only then was the perp arrested for that.

That doesn't mean and doesn't say that they can just search your car without your permission and lacking that, a search warrant which requires probable cause or a lawful reason to impound your car.

The concept that your car is public and that an officer can just search your car for no reason other than he wants to is false, on its face.
 
I'm not sure what this means. Disrespecting me because my glovebox doesn't lock? :confused:

How stupid do have to be to put a firearm in a part of your car that doesn't lock?! You know car break-ins are rampant in the Portland area(yes you were at the beach, doesn't matter). Unless you have a lockbox physically connected to the frame or heavy metalwork of your car, from the inside, you keep the weapon on you. Get a mousegun and leg holster or fannypack. Plan ahead of your journey and take the right weapon if concealment is a problem. I am really surprised I would have tell someone this, but then again...
 
Please ride the short bus from now on.

How stupid do have to be to put a firearm in a part of your car that doesn't lock?! You know car break-ins are rampant in the Portland area(yes you were at the beach, doesn't matter). Unless you have a lockbox physically connected to the frame or heavy metalwork of your car, from the inside, you keep the weapon on you. Get a mousegun and leg holster or fannypack. Plan ahead of your journey and take the right weapon if concealment is a problem. I am really surprised I would have tell someone this, but then again...

Do you really think the cheap lock on a glove box is going to stop a burglar who has already broken into your car? I've had a car broken into before. They stole the cd player (along with cds) and the cd player that was in the locked glove box. I wish I didn't have it locked. They caused a lot of damage and it was very expensive to replace. My newer car does have a glovebox that locks, and I keep it unlocked even though I have a cd changer in there.

By the way, no need to throw out insults on every post. Makes you sound like your 12.
 
Most likely nothing. Because they wouldn't have searched the car.

BUT if they didn't your friend would probably be in jail and you would probably get a stern finger and maybe a letter from your county taking away your CHL.
It would be no different for your friend if you had drugs in the car and he claimed it wasn't his. Ever here that on cops? How'd that go for them?
Oh sorry run along.
 
Yes, that's why you don't use a cheap lock either. Especially one that can be picked easily or opened with a screwdriver. Or how about just NOT LEAVING A FIREARM IN THE CAR. It doesn't do much good for you sitting in a box anyway, does it? Why even own one by that logic. Your car got broken into and items stolen once before. Including locked items. And you learned nothing from that experience? Is that what you are saying? Just want to get that straight.

There is a reason anything of value leaves with me in a Chrome bag when I exit the car. Radio face, iPod, BT GPS, PDA, laptop, *weapons*, cameras, mail, ID's, etc. I've had more problems with theft in Oregon than any city I've ever been in on the East Coast. It seems thieves have it easy out here because the general public is irresponsible and in extreme situations, borderline retarded. Caught up in false sense of security. And of course, there is no enforcement or follow-up by the POPO about break-ins. That is, unless they find a gun and trace it back to you. Then they will prosecute (after a good taser and beating) you, no matter what circumstance led to the weapon leaving the owner.

But hey, do what you do and live your life. You **** up and get imprisoned, keep us informed on the inside.:s0155:
 
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Yes, that's why you don't use a cheap lock either. Especially one that can be picked easily or opened with a screwdriver. Or how about just NOT LEAVING A FIREARM IN THE CAR. It doesn't do much good for you sitting in a box anyway, does it? Why even own one by that logic. Your car got broken into and items stolen once before. Including locked items. And you learned nothing from that experience? Is that what you are saying? Just want to get that straight.

There is a reason anything of value leaves with me in a Chrome bag when I exit the car. Radio face, iPod, BT GPS, PDA, laptop, *weapons*, cameras, mail, ID's, etc. I've had more problems with theft in Oregon than any city I've ever been in on the East Coast. It seems thieves have it easy out here because the general public is irresponsible and in extreme situations, borderline retarded. Caught up in false sense of security. And of course, there is no enforcement or follow-up by the POPO about break-ins. That is, unless they find a gun and trace it back to you. Then they will prosecute (after a good taser and beating) you, no matter what circumstance led to the weapon leaving the owner.

But hey, do what you do and live your life. You **** up and get imprisoned, keep us informed on the inside.:s0155:

How many of the forum members have aftermarket glovebox locks or boxes bolted to the frame of the car? Not many I would guess. I'm guessing you don't do anything active if you can keep a gun strapped to you all day. I'm into sports so even having a pocket gun won't help sometimes.

Oh and yes, I did learn something from my car being broken into. Having a $1000 alarm and having stuff locked up in your car won't prevent burglary.
 
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Let's see, we learned a lesson here and no one was tasered or beaten or imprisoned. Now we know the next time a similar situation occurs we're sure it will be handled differently. Treat it like an accidental discharge, learn and move on. SLIDEGLIDER you should take a deep breath and relax, most of your last post was just bizarre.
 
What was bizarre? I am relaxed.

I DIDN'T WRITE LIKE THIS DID I?!!!

Can you not see all the bad things that could happen if someone broke into your vehicle and stole a weapon.
1) use it on you when you return to the car
2)use it on someone else to take property
3) #2 plus get busted with the weapon, in which ...
4) cops come for you because it's your weapon
5)you get an aggressive cop who is not civi-gun friendly and decides do all kind of entertaining things to you simply because they can and you won't win in court

At the very least, if the gun isn't registered, your out the investment. Picture a $1000 Kimber walking away. Picture a smart or devious criminal who, after robbing you, decides to follow you to where you live in case you have more weapons,or nice things in the safe.

After the radio, and any bags, the glove box is the next place a thief will hit. At least, with even a crappy safe/box, you tried. But putting it in a unlockable glove box is just stupid to the extreme. Why even go on a public forum and ask "what would happen". Think about what your friend would feel like if he got put in jail, missed some days of work, got fired for missing work, now unemployed, with court costs for fighting the charge (innocent or not), a weapons court case on his record(innocent or not) and everything else.

Then think about all things that didn't happen because you kept the gun on you or left it at home.

Which one do you think would be the better choice?
 
Security doesn't have to be expensive either. For a lockbox, get one with heavy gauge steel. If your putting it under the seat, or on the floorboard area, simply drill 4 holes in the lockbox; 1 in each corner area. Mark the holes on your floorboard and drill through (checking first for things not to hit obviously). Get some heavy gauge, galvanized button head lag bolts with some grommets or o-rings and locking nuts. Also some RTV. Bolt to floor board with the nuts inside the box. Make sure the box has combination instead of key. Make sure the latch is heavy duty and won't break by a screwdriver or crowbar. Try to find a combination box with more than 4 digits. And make sure it can be changed from a factory provided combination. You could also rig up an electro-magnetic switch on the inside with no visible locking mechanism on the outside if you wanted to go the "security through obscurity " route, if you are technically inclined. This could also work behind a truck seat to the back wall.
 
Will, please read what we wrote? I don't disagree with you. We already agreed he might even go to trial, but probably not once it's sorted out. We already agreed that the owner might have to testify.

We just don't think that in the end there's a conviction, either by the DA not pressing charges, or a jury not convicting, or even a judge dismissing it.

I agree it might be a problem up until all of that. It wasn't a good idea.

Gunner I did read what was written and agree that the driver and the gun owner will get off with out charges. My point was why? Why secure your firearm in your car if your going to leave your keys where anyone could pick them up and drive off with your car. That IS what happened if I understand the story correctly. Why expect the LEO to figure out if it an honest mistake or something else? It is a consealed firearm in the posession of a person that doesn't have a license to have a consealed firearm. While the firearm was not on his person it was in his constructive position simply because the firearm was with in his ability to access. Why put your firinds in this situation? If you car has a trunk then put your firearm in it. If it doesn't then buy a cheap lock box for your firearm. MOST of all keep your car key on your person if you have a firearm in your car. Imagine if some slack jaw picked up those keys to go for a joy ride then finds the firearm and decides to even a score or rob the 7-11? Secure your firearms!

It is just that simple:huh:
 
Please ride the short bus from now on.
I'm not sure what this means. Disrespecting me because my glovebox doesn't lock? :confused:
Yeah, I was wondering too. Don't put the gun in the jockey box if it doesn't have a working lock? My ride doesn't have a lock on the box either. Nor is there a lockable trunk separate from the passenger space. 2000 Ford Explorer.

MrB
 

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