What would have happened?

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Couple weekends ago, my friend had a bunch of us over at his beach house. Since I got there last, my car was quadruple-parked. One of my friends wanted to make a run to the store real quick and just yelled out that he was going to take my car. I never heard him, but found out about 15 minutes later when I asked where my car was.

I had a gun in the glove box that he didn't know about. The friends I was with were not "gun people" so he would've had no reason to assume I had a gun in the car. The store was less than a mile away, but I was wondering what would've happened if he had gotten pulled over? I've heard some say that my CHL is linked to my license plate, but don't know if this is true. Maybe he opens the glovebox and the cop sees the gun (or my friend sees it and freaks out).

Would he have been screwed for having a loaded gun in the car with no CHL? Or would it have been me, for not being responsible (even though I didn't know he took my car)?

On a side note, is there such thing as a glovebox/console holster or something similar?

P.S. My glovebox doesn't lock.

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[Chee-to]

 

[matt_w]

Shame on you.

 

[CounterOfBeans]

Seems like a fair question. Not sure if I'm missing some sarcasm with the replies so far.

 

[ZachS]

Couple weekends ago, my friend had a bunch of us over at his beach house. Since I got there last, my car was quadruple-parked. One of my friends wanted to make a run to the store real quick and just yelled out that he was going to take my car. I never heard him, but found out about 15 minutes later when I asked where my car was.

I had a gun in the glove box that he didn't know about. The friends I was with were not "gun people" so he would've had no reason to assume I had a gun in the car. The store was less than a mile away, but I was wondering what would've happened if he had gotten pulled over? I've heard some say that my CHL is linked to my license plate, but don't know if this is true. Maybe he opens the glovebox and the cop sees the gun (or my friend sees it and freaks out).

Would he have been screwed for having a loaded gun in the car with no CHL? Or would it have been me, for not being responsible (even though I didn't know he took my car)?

On a side note, is there such thing as a glovebox/console holster or something similar?

P.S. My glovebox doesn't lock.

Unlikely anybody would be convicted of anything in that situation. Everything else would depend on the whim of the investigating officer/prosecutor/etc.

 

[slingshot1943]

I haven't got a ccl but I didn't think it allowed you to keep it in the car. That's the main reason I would want one.

 

[soberups]

Your friend did not know the gun was there, ergo he had no criminal intent.

Since its your car and your gun and you are legal to have the gun in the car, no law was being broken.

No ethical DA would even choose to prosecute such a case, and if he did there would be no chance of a conviction. You would simply take the stand and truthfully testify that you legally stored your gun in your car, and your friend had no knowledge of it.

 

[Gunner3456]

Your friend did not know the gun was there, ergo he had no criminal intent.

Since its your car and your gun and you are legal to have the gun in the car, no law was being broken.

No ethical DA would even choose to prosecute such a case, and if he did there would be no chance of a conviction. You would simply take the stand and truthfully testify that you legally stored your gun in your car, and your friend had no knowledge of it.

I agree. Now, had the friend not known he needed a CCW and stuck a gun in his coat, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" in that case and "intent" to commit a crime isn't required. He's guilty. He did have intent to conceal the gun.

In this case, he had no way of even knowing the gun was there so he committed no act "with intent." In fact, perhaps he committed no actionable act at all.

 

[Will]

If your friend was pulled over and while getting your information from the glove box the was seen by the LEO he's in it deep. That "he didn't know it was there, this is my friends car BS" is what LEO's hear from the felon when they find a gun. At best your friend is in cuffs untill the LEOS sort it out, he might even be heading to jail. You might have to go to court and explain it as well. The advice that the LEO's will acccept "this is my friends car, I didn't know there was a gun in the glove box". Imagine what the gang banger or drug dealer says when he get pulled over! Your friend is getting charged with possesion of a consealed firearm.

Did you leave your keys in the car and unlocked or did you give him the keys? Either way you put your friend in a bad situation. Lock you car and don't hand the keys to anyone unless you remove the firearm. The LEO on the street isn't there to figure out the story, he/she is there to enforce the law and if your friend doesn't have a CCL they are in cuffs and posssibly heading to jail.

Did you leave your car open with the key in the ignition? You must have considering you said it was fifteen minutes latter before you did the "Dude where's my car" thing. I go to get togethrers where I leave my firearm in my ride. The difference is I lock my car, set the alarm and keep the keys with me. If by chance someone had to use my car I would remove the firearm from the car before I gave them the keys.

It's just that simple

 

[Gunner3456]

Will, please read what we wrote? I don't disagree with you. We already agreed he might even go to trial, but probably not once it's sorted out. We already agreed that the owner might have to testify.

We just don't think that in the end there's a conviction, either by the DA not pressing charges, or a jury not convicting, or even a judge dismissing it.

I agree it might be a problem up until all of that. It wasn't a good idea.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Seems like a fair question. Not sure if I'm missing some sarcasm with the replies so far.

Kind of what I was wondering. Glad the responses got better. I think it was an honest mistake. I guess it could have been prevented, but I didn't give anyone permission to drive my car. I had just left my keys and phone on an end table.

Since this happened, I have become more careful of this kind of situation, especially with my wife who knows I have guns, but isn't always aware of WHEN there is a gun in each car. If she would just take the CHL class, it would make things easier I guess (she's not into my gun hobby).

 

[tionico]

SO--- since you had locked the car and taken the keys elsewhere, even though not on your person, its highly likely you fulfilled the legal requirements for loaded weapon in your car, you not in it. Fine. Your pal, though, put himself WAY out there. Unknowingly, but as some have pointed out, often INTENT matters nought. FACT-- he WAS in a vehicle, alone, inn possession of a loaded concealed weapon... I can only assume he did not have the CHL. If this is true, he would have been entirely at the mercy of the cop, the DA, and the courts. It COULD have gone very badly for him. I hope you had this discussion with him........ had he ASKED, you'd have had opportunity to remove the firearm. Or at least pop it into the boot, under some stuff.. supreme court has determined, recently, LE are NOT free to search a trunk without permission, or a warrant. (of course, if your friend was indimidated, ignorant of the presence of the gun, he may well have given permission.... to his own doom. )

Keep your keys ON your person.... or in some safe, out of the way place in the house... NOT on a table in plain view. Oh, and one more "incident" to help your wife make a more informed decision on her refusal to get her own CHL........ even if YOU don't press the point home, make sure she is aware of the danger your friend was in by not knowing the gun was there.

 

[slideglider]

P.S. My glovebox doesn't lock.

Please ride the short bus from now on.

 

[soberups]

That "he didn't know it was there, this is my friends car BS" is what LEO's hear from the felon when they find a gun....

The key difference is that, in the typical felon/gangbanger/lowlife scenario...none of the individuals involved are willing to cop to ownership of the gun because none of them are legal to carry one. The gun in the glove box is a crime in and of itself, and all partied involved will try to blame one another by denying knowledge of the gun.

In this case....the registered owner of the car is willing to claim ownership of the weapon because he is legal to carry it.

 

[husker]

He most likely would not have been charged with anything but it would have been a bad day.
You need to put yourself in Leo's possition.
They pull your friend over. He opens the glove box to get information and the Leo sees a gun. Every police officer will react diffrent but I am sure he will be exiting the car by gunpoint with hands in the air.
They dont know your friend. All they know is theypulled a guy over and he had a gun in the glove box.
In the end it will probably all work.
Just the way I look at it.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

The way I understand it, if charged, your friend would be looking at a one year mandatory, no questions asked stay at the crossbar hotel.

 

[ZachS]

The way I understand it, if charged, your friend would be looking at a one year mandatory, no questions asked stay at the crossbar hotel.

Can you expand on that statement?

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Just took an CPL course specific to Oregon last night. According to the instrutor, Oregon is no place to fool around. The interior of the car is considered "open public space", and liable to search. I can't quote the law (whatever equivalent to RCW's Oregon has), but I don't have any reason to doubt the instructor. He said One year mandatory, I believe one year mandatory - I'm not screwing around in Oregon. Until I get an Oregon CPL, I'll unload the mag and lock the pistol/mag in one saddlebag, and the ammo in another when passing through.

 

[Gunner3456]

Just took an CPL course specific to Oregon last night. According to the instrutor, Oregon is no place to fool around. The interior of the car is considered "open public space", and liable to search. I can't quote the law (whatever equivalent to RCW's Oregon has), but I don't have any reason to doubt the instructor. He said One year mandatory, I believe one year mandatory - I'm not screwing around in Oregon. Until I get an Oregon CPL, I'll unload the mag and lock the pistol/mag in one saddlebag, and the ammo in another when passing through.

Your instructor is dead wrong. They have to have a warrant to search your car unless they arrest you for something else and impound the car. Since they can't find the gun without a search or unless someone opens the glove box door and they see it, they have no "probable cause" to search or to get a warrant.

The interior of the car is private property.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Well - I like that situation more better... Think I'll look up the law to make sure no more bum dope. Thanks.