What is competence/proficiency?

[Koda]

Competence, when I hit my target.
Proficiency, when I double tap my steel target


Complete frustration and a few words of profanity, when I try to shoot a dot torture drill. lol.

 

[oremike]

I think there is no universal "right" answer. Someone might be good with one type or even one specific firearm and discipline say speed steel with a 9mm but just plane suck at something different say something like Sporting Clays.

 

[bradsteen]

I think it depends on your intended purpose. Competency for someone who is just in it for marksmanship may be as simple as safe handling, reasonable accuracy, and manipulation of the weapon through all essential functions (load, shoot, unload, disassemble, clean, etc). For a person carrying or keeping a weapon for personal protection, competency should include all of the above plus legal criteria and implications of using deadly force as well as handling / manipulation under stress / timer (draw, presentation, reloads, malfunction clearing, movement, etc).

 

[Stomper]

Speaking only for myself ....

Proficiency happens when you can do something supremely well , almost automatically.
Zen like if you will...
Smoothly...naturally...flowing without seemingly being rushed.

There are times when I shoot like that. , especially with my Hawken rifle....or a favorite .22 rifle.
The maker of my Hawken Rifle , Doc Brown was very Zen like when shooting his M1 rifle.
'Course Doc was a WWII combat veteran...so that may be the reason .....

Again...any of the above is only me speaking for myself.
Andy

Once upon a time (in another life) I could spell, "zen" as well as "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" by shooting it onto an index card with an M60 machinegun…. in fancy calligraphy font!

Of course that burned up my spare barrel, and nobody dared to walk down-range and check my spelling.

 

[CLT65]

The friend I was thinking of when I originally posted about proficiency with a .44 Magnum is a serious lifelong hunter who works in wildlife control. He relies on his rifle and Model 29 .44 Magnum every day. Some of the stories he's told about a big black bear dropping at his feet with a couple .44 slugs in it, tell me that he's probably pretty proficient with his revolver.

I remember when he got into black powder hunting about 25 years ago. He came out to my place with his brand new flintlock. Neither of us had any idea what we were doing; couldn't hit much but had fun with it. A couple months later he came out again. He had studied, learned, and practiced loading and shooting his rifle, and was hitting pop cans at 50 yards. I was seriously impressed. Proficiency comes with determination and practice.

I can hit pretty much anything I aim at, at reasonable ranges, with my old Model 29 that I've been practicing with for the last 30+ years, so I'm pretty confident with it, but I don't know how I'd do with a bear coming at me. I hope to never find out.

 

[Koda]

but I don't know how I'd do with a bear coming at me. I hope to never find out.

Theres a really fun looking drill Id like to try using a big rubber bouncy ball.

FF to the 12 minute mark to see it in action.

Pistol, Bear Spray or Both? | Clay Newcomb Learns Bear Defense | Presented by Taurus

Most folks think that bear defense revolves around one age-old debate: pistol versus bear spray. MeatEater's Clay Newcomb, a long time bear man, has always wanted to go deeper and figure out what he can do better in the bear woods. So, Clay sets off to interview Todd Orr, who was mauled twice by...

www.themeateater.com

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Competence is when you can do this. Proficiency is when you can do it under duress.

 

[WillametteWill]

I think there is no universal "right" answer. Someone might be good with one type or even one specific firearm and discipline say speed steel with a 9mm but just plane suck at something different say something like Sporting Clays.

Agree, different meanings for different folks, and this is okay. I shoot for fun, sport, a little hunting, some competition and for self defense. The last one can get you killed if your skill/proficiency/competence/mindset are not good enough for the particular encounter. We all have a limit to our funds and time. We also have a limit to how much we desire to put forth the effort in different areas. I meet people at Gunsite who attend something every few months (or more frequently). Others talk about going there (or similar schools) "one day." Neither is right or wrong. It's a personal choice with many factors.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Speaking only for myself ....

Proficiency happens when you can do something supremely well , almost automatically.
Zen like if you will...
Smoothly...naturally...flowing without seemingly being rushed.

There are times when I shoot like that. , especially with my Hawken rifle....or a favorite .22 rifle.
The maker of my Hawken Rifle , Doc Brown was very Zen like when shooting his M1 rifle.
'Course Doc was a WWII combat veteran...so that may be the reason .....

Again...any of the above is only me speaking for myself.
Andy

This above is what I've been saying for years. When you get to a place where essentially your sub conscious takes care of the physical movement part, and your emotions/adrenaline etc don't inhibit you (the mental part). That is the goal imo. To be able to operate from your subconscious (ie without thought) and undisturbed by the emotion of the event.

When you open and walk through a door Fe you don't think about the actions involved or what you should do, you can just do it thousands of times, perfectly, without any thought.

Another hidden aid that I had no idea existed until recently when I was assaulted is the "flow state" that can happen automatically. The world slows down (sort of like 1/4 speed or so). Action in that state seems almost too easy (based on only the one experience for me though).

I didn't understand why things were in slow mo so I looked it up and here is the reason why:

https://www.npr.org/2010/08/17/129112147/why-a-brush-with-death-triggers-the-slow-mo-effect

 

[thorborg]

This is inline with @Andy54Hawken espoused;
I believe Proficiency is more like a qualifier of competency where competency would be a knowledge thing, and proficiency more action thing. I am competent in many different disciplines including firearms. However I am not proficient in in the execution of some of them. Ive never been a good target shooter. I know a lot about metallurgy, heat treating, all aspects of soldering brazing welding, but I don't weld well, even though I done much of it. Oh, It's strong enough, but looks ugly compared to many others, requiring me much filing or grinding to make the finished product look good.
I've spent decades behind a drafting table and am extremely competent in the antiquated art but do not consider myself as ever being truly proficient as I cant draw a straight line over a quarter of an inch so a quality production of such things, especially when it came to labeling them, was painfully slow, having to use templets to produce those residuals where others zipped those things along freehand.

 

[Koda]

Ive heard of proficiency described as "unconscious competence"....

ie, where you can do something without thinking about it.

 

[NobullSKS]

Off the top of my head without accounting for definitions….a lot of good responses

Comprehension …. Or understanding what is going on and how to perform "it"

proficiency …. Another level of efficiency ….better

 

[Willysmb]

Picked this up a while back-

Unconsciously incompetent = You don't know that you don't know.

Consciously incompetent = You know you don't know.

Consciously competent = You can perform the task, but must think about each step.

Unconsciously competent = You can perform the task without devoting conscious thought (As Koda mentioned above).

In the context of this discussion, I would say "Proficiency" = "Unconsciously competent"

WMB