What is competence/proficiency?

[CLT65]

There was a thread a while back that got me to thinking. It was about self-defense with a big-bore revolver.

The discussion came to center around how few people are any good with magnum revolvers. I made a comment about how many "gun guys" I'd been shooting with who can't shoot well, especially with the .44 Magnum, and I really only know one other guy, besides myself, who can really hit what they aim at with the big-bore magnums.

Truth be told, I don't know or shoot with any serious competitors. I don't doubt that there are plenty of people out there who could outshoot me any day. I've been shooting and practicing for several decades and enjoy shooting for fun, but have never shot competitively even once, so I really don't have much to compare myself to, other than the guys I have shot with over the years. I've never taken any classes or professional training either, occasionally thought about it, but in reality it's not going to happen.

So my question is, what is competence with a handgun? What is proficiency? I'm confident that I'm competent, but true proficiency is another level, and to be honest I don't know what I don't know. What is the measure of proficiency?

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[TTSX]

I would say proficiency is being able to get consistently good results beyond those achieved by an average person. That extends to anything, not just shooting.


I would further say that competency is not the same as proficiency, just like accuracy is not the same as precision, though they are related.

 

[Koda]

So my question is, what is competence with a handgun? What is proficiency? I'm confident that I'm competent, but true proficiency is another level, and to be honest I don't know what I don't know. What is the measure of proficiency?

Competence is when you can hit your target every time. Proficiency is when you can do that under stress.

Proficiency is typically used to express expertise or advanced ability or skill set.

 

[CLT65]

proficient /prə-fĭsh′ənt/

adjective

1. Having or marked by an advanced degree of competence, as in an art, vocation, profession, or branch of learning.
2. Well advanced in any branch of knowledge or skill; possessed of considerable acquirements; well-skilled; versed; adept.

A good student is competent; the teacher is proficient. A good apprentice is competent; the master is proficient.

I guess I can't really say what level of proficiency I've attained over the years since I don't compete, nor am I likely to ever attain a high degree of proficiency since I'm not willing to spend the time and money on professional training.

 

[Koda]

I guess I can't really say what level of proficiency I've attained over the years since I don't compete, nor am I likely to ever attain a high degree of proficiency since I'm not willing to spend the time and money on professional training.

You don't have to compete to have a high level of proficiency. There is just no other formal way to measure proficiency. For the recreationalist, its usually just if your skill meets your personal needs.

 

[Member 53328]

Competence - The ability to do something successfully or efficiently.

Proficient - Competent or skilled in doing or using something.

By definition they are interchangeable and basically mean the same thing.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Guns are like any machine, there are people who can operate machines and people who are productive.

The best machine operators start out with a love of the machine but have to develope what talent they have with experience. The more you run a machine the better you can become until you reach the top of your talent.

There are always more talented people with any machine and the machines get better.

The gents using obsolete machines can still reach the peak of their talent with old quality machines and its a satisfying challenge to some.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking only for myself ....

Proficiency happens when you can do something supremely well , almost automatically.
Zen like if you will...
Smoothly...naturally...flowing without seemingly being rushed.

There are times when I shoot like that. , especially with my Hawken rifle....or a favorite .22 rifle.
The maker of my Hawken Rifle , Doc Brown was very Zen like when shooting his M1 rifle.
'Course Doc was a WWII combat veteran...so that may be the reason .....

Again...any of the above is only me speaking for myself.
Andy

 

[WillametteWill]

To me, it is a journey. Although I may feel competent/proficient today, I hope I am more so tomorrow. We also need to be mindful of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, essentially believing we are better at something than we actually are.

I do a fair amount of training at different schools and with various instructors. This provides me with a barometer for some skills. I shoot in occasional informal-ish competitions which does this as well. I can still be better. Without force on force type scenario training, it can be difficult to get a good read on competence/proficiency under SHTF conditions (IMHO), but this is absolutely not a guarantee of how one will react in real life.

As for revolvers, the first gun I purchased was a S&W M29 44 Mag. A really stupid choice but it turned out one of the best "stupid" decisions of my life. I became comfortable with powerful loads and everything else was easier because of this (my 2" model 60 hurts more to shoot with regular loads...but it still gets shot regularly).

From teaching and attending classes, I hear all the time people talking about how good they are with a Staccato or Ed Brown strapped to their belt. Then they have a simple malfunction and it goes to crap, or they unexpectedly run out of ammo and take 10 seconds to do a mag change. Fortunately, most I've been blessed to train with are like me and just trying to be a little better tomorrow.

 

[CLT65]

For the recreationalist, its usually just if your skill meets your personal needs.

Good point. I just shoot for fun. I'm not a hunter. I'm not a prepper, I'm not an "operator", and self-defense is not the primary reason for my interest in firearms. For my own purposes, I do just fine. Every once in a while I get on a kick where I'll watch a youtube video about handgun shooting and do some practice to get better.

A person may feel pretty good about their skills in one way, then realize they're lacking in another. For example, I used to like to shoot those tiny little groups, off the bench with sandbags and an accurate rifle. I thought I was a pretty good shot. One day I was shooting with a good friend who's a serious, lifelong hunter. Shooting offhand quickly, he was a far better shot than me.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

A little further thought....
I always try to make my next shot , better than my last shot...
That is proficient or competent enough for me.
Andy

 

[oremike]

What I like to see at the end of my handgun 101 class is safe handling, including loading and unloading. And all the shots in a paper plate at 10 yards with their personal firearm. I call that minute of bad guy but competence would apply also. To do that every time is proficiency
.

 

[po18guy]

Competence: the ability to hit what you need to hit, when you need to hit it.

 

[Longwalkhome]

A competent shooter measures his skill in like minded competition with others. The proficient shooter is he who wins the match.

Competition is the true measure of competence and it takes real proficient shooters to win time after time.

A man will never know how good he really is until he competes with others.

 

[Nosferatu]

I'll let you know when I finally encounter either one.

 

[Howard1955]

Kompittuncy: Bein aybul too spel bigg wurds.

Az inn: Im varie kompittunt.

 

[Catfishmoon]

So my question is, what is competence with a handgun? What is proficiency? I'm confident that I'm competent, but true proficiency is another level, and to be honest I don't know what I don't know. What is the measure of proficiency?

I imagine that the words "competence or proficiency" have different meanings to different people as relates to handguns. For me, safe handling of the firearm would be at the top of my list in determining if an individual is competent with a gun regardless of how accurate or speedy they may be...
I also think that caliber size is irrelevant if we are referring to only one shot being taken, doesn't matter if it's a .22 or .44 the fundamentals are the same; line up the sights and do not disturb the sight alignment during the trigger squeeze. If the individual takes additional immediate shots, then more proficiency would be required to control the increased recoil of the larger caliber and immediately getting the gun back on target for followup shots...
It could be argued that the focus of this forum is defensive handgun with concealed carry, in which case many would equate proficiency with a relatively fast draw and the accuracy to hit a human body at a distance of approximately 10 yards or much closer.
Personally, when I ask myself if I am proficient, I am usually asking myself how accurate I am and I determine that with a NRA target, usually a B-8. Those targets have been shot for decades and scores recorded so I can easily understand where I am in comparison. However, I do not shoot the firearm one-handed and my scores leave much to be desired.
.

 

[BMGMAN]

There was a thread a while back that got me to thinking. It was about self-defense with a big-bore revolver.

The discussion came to center around how few people are any good with magnum revolvers. I made a comment about how many "gun guys" I'd been shooting with who can't shoot well, especially with the .44 Magnum, and I really only know one other guy, besides myself, who can really hit what they aim at with the big-bore magnums.

Truth be told, I don't know or shoot with any serious competitors. I don't doubt that there are plenty of people out there who could outshoot me any day. I've been shooting and practicing for several decades and enjoy shooting for fun, but have never shot competitively even once, so I really don't have much to compare myself to, other than the guys I have shot with over the years. I've never taken any classes or professional training either, occasionally thought about it, but in reality it's not going to happen.

So my question is, what is competence with a handgun? What is proficiency? I'm confident that I'm competent, but true proficiency is another level, and to be honest I don't know what I don't know. What is the measure of proficiency?

Just put one in someone's hand who "shoots a lot" leave a few cylinders empty and see how much they try to compensate when they squeeze the trigger it's a crowd favorite when I take people out shooting!

 

[Certaindeaf]

There was a thread a while back that got me to thinking. It was about self-defense with a big-bore revolver.

The discussion came to center around how few people are any good with magnum revolvers. I made a comment about how many "gun guys" I'd been shooting with who can't shoot well, especially with the .44 Magnum, and I really only know one other guy, besides myself, who can really hit what they aim at with the big-bore magnums.

Truth be told, I don't know or shoot with any serious competitors. I don't doubt that there are plenty of people out there who could outshoot me any day. I've been shooting and practicing for several decades and enjoy shooting for fun, but have never shot competitively even once, so I really don't have much to compare myself to, other than the guys I have shot with over the years. I've never taken any classes or professional training either, occasionally thought about it, but in reality it's not going to happen.

So my question is, what is competence with a handgun? What is proficiency? I'm confident that I'm competent, but true proficiency is another level, and to be honest I don't know what I don't know. What is the measure of proficiency?

Hitting what you aim at.

 

[CLT65]

Just put one in someone's hand who "shoots a lot" leave a few cylinders empty and see how much they try to compensate when they squeeze the trigger it's a crowd favorite when I take people out shooting!

That's how I first taught myself to not flinch, 30 years ago. It works really well. I do that for my kids too, cured the flinch. I love to see the gun perfectly stable when the hammer falls on an empty chamber. That's half the battle towards accuracy.

I also taught myself to shoot double action only, with double action revolvers. That was challenging at first, but now I can shoot just as accurately either way.

A couple of my kids are decent shots. I feel proud when my ten year old daughter busts clay targets on the 25 yard berm with a .22 pistol, and rings the 100-yard gong with an 80 year old M1 Carbine.