What is a good basic way to shine some ammo

[CLT65]

The only story I ever heard of possible tumbling/vibration damage was something posted on one of those threads about how someone had a box of .44 Mag ammo that was left in a glove box (in Alaska, IIRC) for something like a couple years.

The truck drove many tens of thousands of miles on rough roads, bumping, rattling, and vibrating. Eventually the owner decided to use the ammo and blew up his gun. This was attributed to powder deterioration from all the vibration in the glove box.

This seems logical, except for one thing. What is one KNOWN cause of gunpowder deterioration? Temperature extremes and fluctuations.
What kinds of temperatures exist in a vehicle glove box, over a couple years?
Exactly- temperature extremes and fluctuations.

 

[Ridge Walker]

View attachment 867687

Your welcome.....

Nice thanks!

 

[Mikej]

This subject has been beaten to death many, many times, on many forums.

The long and the short of it is that there are those who say that you shouldn't do it, and those who do it all the time with no ill effects. Yes, several reputable sources say "OMG! Thou Shalt Not!!!" and give some convincing arguments. Yet still, many people do it with no ill effects.

I won't try to tell anyone else what to do, and personally I don't tumble live ammo anymore myself, though not because I think it's harmful, but rather just because I've changed my process.

The idea that tumbling breaks down the powder sounds right, but nobody's been able to prove it. I remember one guy on another forum, must have been an engineer or scientist, who tumbled various different loads for various amounts of time (some for several days), and had controls that were not tumbled. He then pulled some apart and looked at the powder under a microscope. He fired over a chronograph and fired for accuracy, both tumbled and control batches. He did this for several calibers and loads.

The long and the short of it was that he could find no evidence of the mythical powder breakdown from tumbling, and no change in velocity or accuracy.

Now others replied that he didn't test every powder/load combination in existence, so it's possible that somewhere there exists a load that could be damaged and dangerous. Sure, you can't prove a negative...

So- there will continue to be those who say "OMG don't do it! It's dangerous!", and there will continue to be those who quietly go about their own business and do it anyhow, with no ill effects.

I feel I have, and use, common sense in every day life. I wasn't blessed with high intelligence, but I seem to have something that has kept me from crossing imaginary lines, to my detriment, pretty darn good in my 66 years. Tumbling loaded ammo is something my common sense tells me I most likely will never do.

 

[RVTECH]

the owner decided to use the ammo and blew up his gun. This was attributed to powder deterioration from all the vibration in the glove box

Powder deterioration from vibration in a glove box?

'Deterioration' in the formal sense of the word, would be something such as rotting, decay, chemical breakdown etc. which would normally be caused by exposure to air and moisture.

Vibration might cause 'settling' of the powder but nothing that would cause the powder to become 'explosive' or create higher pressure to blow up a gun.

I have had some powders, stored indoors and sealed, that experienced +90 to way below O temps and once at room temp loaded and shot just fine.

 

[Member 53328]

Powder deterioration from vibration in a glove box?

'Deterioration' in the formal sense of the word, would be something such as rotting, decay, chemical breakdown etc. which would normally be caused by exposure to air and moisture.

Vibration might cause 'settling' of the powder but nothing that would cause the powder to become 'explosive' or create higher pressure to blow up a gun.

I have had some powders, stored indoors and sealed, that experienced +90 to way below O temps and once at room temp loaded and shot just fine.

I'm glad all the troops over seas are ok. A lot of bumpy roads with a lot of ammo..... they must just have good luck. Haha. "Deteriorating" that powder 10 fold.

 

[Mikej]

'Deterioration' in the formal sense of the word, would be something such as rotting, decay, chemical breakdown etc. which would normally be caused by exposure to air and moisture.

I read here that old powder, maybe showing some rusty signs/funky smell should be scattered about the yard and the "nitro" parts of it will help things grow. Well I was given 200 rounds of old .30-06 reloads by a member early this year. Some were pretty funky with some corrosion showing on the brass. And others I woulda' shot had they not been, most likely, reloads. I pulled all the bullets and saved the powder. It looked like the IMR 4064 I used in .30-06. The majority looked fine, with only a few rounds showing rusty/dusty powder. I sprinkled that powder out in the yard across some leaves in one of the flower beds. Months later that stick powder was still sitting where I sprinkled it, looking just the same. I put a flame to it and it still burned. Not as robust as when new, but it burned! I was quite surprised!

 

[Dinglenutz]

What is a good simple way of cleaning these up.

Shoot them, then deprime and run through a brass polisher.

 

[RVTECH]

I recently reloaded this can of powder.

Rusted, loose top, stored in an old, ramshackled shop for who knows how long, but looked, smelled and shot just fine!

 

[CLT65]

I feel I have, and use, common sense in every day life. I wasn't blessed with high intelligence, but I seem to have something that has kept me from crossing imaginary lines, to my detriment, pretty darn good in my 66 years. Tumbling loaded ammo is something my common sense tells me I most likely will never do.

I agree; there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think this is precisely why so many people say you shouldn't; it just doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. It's wise to be cautious, especially with something of dubious value.

Even major companies who say that you shouldn't: do they take the time to experiment and see if the powder actually does break down from tumbling? I highly doubt it. They look at it and say "This doesn't seem wise. We don't think people should be doing this, so we'll discourage it. What could happen? Hmm, well it seems that the powder could break down from the constant tumbling."

Like I said, I don't tumble live ammo any more at all, just because I've changed my process. I don't see myself ever tumbling ammo again, as I just don't see the need for it, myself.

I know that sounds contradictory, but I like to know the real facts about things. Is the perceived danger real, or merely assumed? Either way it should be avoided until known.

Is tumbling live ammo necessary? Personally I don't see the need for it. Is it dangerous? Not in my experience, and I've tinkered around with it a fair amount back in the day.

I've also paid close attention to previous threads on this subject over the decades. A couple different guys on other forums have really made a science of it, seriously looking for problems and reasons to not tumble, and were not able to produce deterioration in the cartridge by tumbling. As I recall, they even went overboard and tumbled some for days, pulling them apart afterwards to look at the powder under a microscope, next to a control that hadn't been tumbled, and couldn't find any evidence of damage. I'm sure I could find these threads if I took the time to scour the net for them. One of them had detailed, scientific notes and photos. He made a serious study of it.

I'm not saying that you should ever tumble ammo for days at a time, as that's a pretty extreme test, but on the other hand a half hour tumbling in corn cob to remove case or bullet lube is really a big nothing.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Is tumbling live ammo necessary? Personally I don't see the need for it. Is it dangerous? Not in my experience, and I've tinkered around with it a fair amount back in the day.

I tumbled quite a bit of freshly reloaded ammo with fresh media just a few minutes to help get the lube off. It never hurt a thing AFAICT but I wouldn't feel OK with vibrating it long enough to actually polish the cases, and there is some danger of losing track of the time, walking off, and running it for a long time. This is something I certainly wouldn't want.

 

[RVTECH]

walking off, and running it for a long time.

Use a timer with your tumbler.

I admit to tumbling some loaded ammo for a short time as well.

I was once give some old, factory .30-30 that has some corrosion and buildup on the cases and I just wanted to 'smooth' them out a bit for easier chambering. Seems I have done it with some other ammo as well but not enough to remember.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Use a timer with your tumbler.

I should get one. For the cases where I was de-lubing fresh reloads, the pass through the tumbler was part of the process, and done one box at a time more or less. THe final batch would run while I was cleaning up the press and surrounding areas, then I could box the last of the clean reloads, and then beer.

So in that scenario it wasn't really a big chance of a mistake. In other scenarios I can see how it could be - I've put brass on to clean and forgotten about it until after lunchtime in the past, for example. No harm done, but it was empty brass.

A countdown timer is a great idea though

 

[Ridge Walker]

I recently reloaded this can of powder.

Rusted, loose top, stored in an old, ramshackled shop for who knows how long, but looked, smelled and shot just fine!

View attachment 871823

Apparently judging from all the comments that's a very 'Unique Story'

 

[eb in oregon]

I'm glad all the troops over seas are ok. A lot of bumpy roads with a lot of ammo..... they must just have good luck. Haha. "Deteriorating" that powder 10 fold.

And just how old does that ammo in the hands of troops get? How long before it is shot in combat or used on a range? They don't hang on to it for months or years, that's for sure.

 

[Member 53328]

And just how old does that ammo in the hands of troops get? How long before it is shot in combat or used on a range? They don't hang on to it for months or years, that's for sure.

You sure about that?

 

[CLT65]

Interesting side note regarding old ammo in combat: I remember a thread on a forum a while back where the discussion turned to interesting guns still used in the military, things like 1911s and M2s from WWII.

One member who had served in the sandbox said that at one point in Afghanistan, they were issued some rather old 50 cal ammo. Apparently there was a supply problem, and logistics sourced some ammunition from an ally in that part of the world, and came up with a bunch of USGI .50 BMG dated 1945. He said that they found that if they delinked and cleaned it before use, it worked fine.

 

[tac]

Am talking about firing and resizing the cases. Brittle brass leads to neck and body splits. The Brits found out the hard way that ammonia attacks brass.

Do tell. I know some Brits who might be interested in this assertion. Unless, of course, you are using those dumb ol' Brits in the manner of the Gotham tales.....

 

[eb in oregon]

You sure about that?

Pretty sure. As the longest a troop can have the same ammo is during their deployment whereupon any left is turned in while being subject to multiple "shakedowns" to insure they have turned it all in. But it would take a pretty dense rifleman to not rotate their ammunition for new stuff once in awhile. When the 41st IBCT deployed we had to have a qualifying range day in the middle of the deployment. We were told to bring all our ammunition to use and replace with new. Do all units do that? No, but there is still the issue that all is turned in at the end.

 

[CLT65]

Do tell. I know some Brits who might be interested in this assertion. Unless, of course, you are using those dumb ol' Brits in the manner of the Gotham tales.....

I think he's talking about the same story I heard, going back to the end of the 19th century, and cases of .577/450 ammo that were stored near the stables. The story goes that the ammonia from the horse urine caused embrittlement in the cartridge cases.

 

[edzz]

From American Hunter
https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2012/10/10/is-tumbling-loaded-ammo-dangerous/
Just saying.