US military was real slow to adopt the fantastic GLOCK!

[leadcounsel]

I agree with the premise that for military/LEO roles, the Glock is vastly superior to the Beretta 92FS aka M9.

I would far prefer to carry one and rely on one.

Having said that, wars are not won or lost on handguns, and I understand why they went with and stuck with the M9. It's stupid, it's politics, it's budgets, training/learning curves, etc. And as noted, in small numbers, special operators are allowed to pick what they want and we did have some that carried Glocks (I saw Glocks, Sigs, 1911s, Browning HPs, and a few others) in my Group. I carried a BHP on a deployment.

When it was time to switch, however, they should have just adopted the Glock models off the shelf rather than spend time/money/energy on the trials and ultimately picked Sig, which was a boondoggle from the start. The Glocks are tried and true for decades and they could have just dispensed with trials and given Glock the opportunity for a great contract.

 

[LuckySG]

A few things about this, as I was in the Army during that period when all the new whiz-bang "new stuff" was being worked into supply chain... K-pot helmets, PASGT Kevlar body armor, M16A2's, "speed lace" boots, the Hum-V, AT-4 rocket launcher, M9 pistol, etc.

In fact, my first real world deployment (as a newly promoted PFC... LOL) was literally using mostly Vietnam era kit and weapons.



My initial reactions when the G17 came out was:

1.
That is the FUGLIEST pistol ever made, I'm still not fond of the G17 aesthetics, actually.

2.
It's made of plastic? Fail!

3.
No external safety, and if snagged by an adversary could just pick it up and shoot you with it? FAIL!

4.
Did I mention it was FUGLY, made of plastic, and had no external safety? LOL.


I carried the 1911A1 in the jungles down south of our borders (mine was a Remington) that essentially had all the parkerizing worn off down to bare metal, and we all had to keep our weapons lightly coated with that new-fangled Break-Fee CLP that was the newest whiz-bang miracle all-in-one juice. Our basic load out for the 1911 was 3-5 magazines, just 21-35 rounds. I still didn't feel "under armed" and was ready to fight anyone or anything with it (plus I had 210 rounds for my M16, or I was packing an M60 MG... LOL)

The "handgun philosophy"'of the 80's was also DA/SA hammer-fired was the ultimate pinnacle of combat handgun evolution, and this "new-dangled" striker-fired stuff was LAME.

Now, if little miss "2Lt Banana Titties" couldn't keep up with the simple procedure of weapons maintenance, then she was the epitome of my general opinion of Jr. (and a lot of senior) officers....

I even purchased my own 92F back in 87' (or was it '88?, LOL)... it was beautiful, the slide felt like it rode on ball bearings, and I even carried it while on PSD duty for the CINC of USAREUR/7th Army. It was the only personal handgun I owned for many, many years... I still own it as a matter of fact.

I also own a few revolvers from Ruger & S&W, one 1911A1 (nostalgic reasons), and a (cough-cough) Taurus PT-145.


Having said all that.... over the last 10yrs I have acquired a G19.3, G19.4, G30.2.5, G43, G43X, and a G44 (which I haven't even shot yet, LOL)

My daily carry is a Glock. Although I'm not "stupid" about it, I'm a "glocktard". The manual of arms, take-down and maintenance is all the same, spare parts and support is ubiquitous and affordable, they're reliable.... so yeah, Glocks rule.... but I don't (nor most likely ever will) own a G17, LOL!

Challenge accepted!

 

[11Charlie]

Challenge accepted!

 

[cookie]

First study up on military procurement and lobby money.
Now learn Glocks pricing to police and government agencies.

 

[Stomper]

Challenge accepted!

Hey buddy.... you know what I'm after ATM!!

 

[j_ravenswood]

First study up on military procurement and lobby money.
Now learn Glocks pricing to police and government agencies.

I'm now under the impression the US military should NOW seriously consider the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield line of pistols for the near future. The "M" in "M&P" stands for "military". Who wants to go with a mushy-trigger handgun for combat from an Austrian outfit that peddles goofy pink "Glock Girl" shirts at its official website come to think of it. Some other gun makers have also lost my respect by peddling goofy faddish feminine stuff. Colt's has yet, it seems, to get into the modern/modular steel-slide-poly-frame stuff. Colt never really came out with any true "wondernine". 9mm was all the rage in the 1980's and gun articles in magazines then touted "wondernine" virtues vs 45 a lot. They are stubbornly stuck on those century-plus-old sharp-edged clunky metal M1911 type things and their descendants like Commander, Govt. Model and Mustang.

 

[tac]

Special or elite units have adopted the Glock as their sidearm over the years41067#:~:text=While%20the%20Glock%20pistol%20has,of%20the%201990s%20and%202000s[/URL].

The regular British Army has the Glock.

The British SF have the SIG P226.

That only serves to advise me that people who are far more likely to use a handgun in a situation prefer the SIG.

 

[j_ravenswood]

Hey buddy.... you know what I'm after ATM!!

after ATF?
by all means, disband those dirty bustards!

 

[Goosebrown]

35+ years later, the tried-and-true Glock has yet to become the STANDARD sidearm of our Armed Services. Many an American GI are clamoring for them though. What was the cop film in the 1990's that had this line something like: "get rid of that chrome 45 and get yourself a Glock!" Glocks were touted by the American LE community like SB preachers wave a bible in church. I once knew a blue-collar middle-age guy from the south that packed some kind of Colt pistol. I asked him what he thought about Glock when we were gun-talking one day. He said he didn't know a Glock from a clock. A bumper-bright-chrome pistol looks pimpish, like something Al Capone's boys packed.

That's not how stuff is procured.

There was a trial. Glock didn't compete. You don't get do overs

 

[cookie]

I'm now under the impression the US military should NOW seriously consider the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield line of pistols for the near future. The "M" in "M&P" stands for "military". Who wants to go with a mushy-trigger handgun for combat from an Austrian outfit that peddles goofy pink "Glock Girl" shirts at its official website come to think of it. Some other gun makers have also lost my respect by peddling goofy faddish feminine stuff. Colt's has yet, it seems, to get into the modern/modular steel-slide-poly-frame stuff. Colt never really came out with any true "wondernine". 9mm was all the rage in the 1980's and gun articles in magazines then touted "wondernine" virtues vs 45 a lot. They are stubbornly stuck on those century-plus-old sharp-edged clunky metal M1911 type things and their descendants like Commander, Govt. Model and Mustang.

While I have Glocks and XDs my 1911s are much nicer to shoot and I can easily half the group size using a 1911. That being said the glocks and S@W are long life [ high round count ] reliable, simple to repair and low cost to the taxpayers. [Taxpayers dollars are free money ] If I could only one one pistol it would be my 1911 if needed a to go and defend myself it pistol would be the Glock first then the XD.

 

[Stomper]

after ATF?
by all means, disband those dirty bustards!

Allow me to elucidate...

 

[leadcounsel]

That's not how stuff is procured.

There was a trial. Glock didn't compete. You don't get do overs

I don't recall the ins and outs, but I seem to recall Glock either protested or sued or both over the pre-destined Sig pick.

Regardless, a person is probably a moron (not uncommon in senior military ranks - people tend to lose their brains and thinking ability) to pick a brand new entry to serve as a military weapon after some "trials" over a gun design that has PROVEN itself over 4-5 decades in global military, police, and civilian use and has become the singular most popular modern handgun in America. No test is even required, good to go off the shelf. As one general officer stated, instead of wasting money on trials, I could have used that money and put a Glock in every holster by now for the same price, or words to that effect. I guess nothing was learned from the M16 boondoggle. Fielding an unproven weapon prematurely when better options were available.

And the result was predictable. The Sig P320 had a lot of teething problems. There's ample articles of reliability issues, quality control issues, and of course it FAILING drop testing after winning the contract... I mean, seriously military brass, are you that inept???

 

[titsonritz]

It's old news to some, while others play catch up.

From 2015...
Naval Special Warfare to adopt Glock 19 - Gun Nuts Media

U.S. Naval Special Warfare (NSW) Adopts Glock 19 (G19) Compact Combat/Tactical 9mm Pistol for U.S. Navy SEAL Assaulters/Operators! DR's Thoughts…

 

[Kruel J]

Glocks are the most hated on handgun out there. For every post I make saying something nice about them, there are 100 that bash them. Whatever.

They are also the most reliable handgun made and save lives every day. Don't like them? Fine. No problem. But to say they are sub-par is just ignorance.

 

[titsonritz]

Glocks are the most hated on handgun out there. For every post I make saying something nice about them, there are 100 that bash them. Whatever.

They are also the most reliable handgun made and save lives every day. Don't like them? Fine. No problem. But to say they are sub-par is just ignorance.

But JMB didn't design it so it sucks.

 

[aksu747]

Hey buddy.... you know what I'm after ATM!!

View attachment 713692

Those have got to be sweet,let me know how reliably it works,might have to look for one.

 

[trevi]

This is like saying all duty rifles should have polymer lowers to reduce weight.

What kinda of idjiot thinks Glocks are a better Military weapon??

Yea, I said it

I own a glock and a beretta. Love both. I carry the glock. The beretta is a far superior firearm though.

If we shoveled out glocks to our troops then you may as well give them AK-47's while your at it..... (I have an AR and an AK) I'm not a fanboy of anything.

This thread has me adding to my ignore list - I sure hope there isn't a maximum on it

But....AKs are superior to ARs!!

 

[trevi]

Nah, leave Glock and take CZ P-09. Better polymer gun and more accurate.

If Glocks are so great, why are so many people customising them out of the box?

I only own a Gen 3 17. Took a loooonng time to get good with it. But it is a keeper just because.

 

[MTpockets]

It's old news to some, while others play catch up.

From 2015...
Naval Special Warfare to adopt Glock 19 - Gun Nuts Media

U.S. Naval Special Warfare (NSW) Adopts Glock 19 (G19) Compact Combat/Tactical 9mm Pistol for U.S. Navy SEAL Assaulters/Operators! DR's Thoughts…

It was the only pistol that passed the float test requirement

 

[joken]

It was all the craze in the 1980's when it came out: the Glock 17.

What did our military stupidly do to replace the venerable old Colt 45's? They brought in this crappy Beretta 92/M9 thing. My brother who was in the army said he once tried to clean one for a woman officer in the field because the barrel developed rust in short order with just a little rain. He wasn't even trained in field-stripping the pistol so he had improvise by removing as much surface rust as he could. He said it was crap. The M9 barrel exterior is exposed on top, not even covered by the slide completely as is the Glock, Colt 45 and many other handguns.

If the US military were any smarter, they would have contracted with Glock right off the bat. Special or elite units have adopted the Glock as their sidearm over the years but this wonder still has yet to be accepted as America's standard-issue sidearm. Glock is a favorite among 75% of US cop shops.

How the U.S. Military Slowly Fell in Love with Glock

Why was adoption of the Glock initially slow? How did it overcome those barriers? Why has it replaced 1911s, Sigs and Berettas as the sidearm of elite units?

nationalinterest.org

.

Your brother couldn't figure out how to remove a Beretta slide? I just bought a 92 FS and it took about 30 seconds to solve that puzzle. I use this miracle rust protector called oil.