Trigger comparison, Redhawk vs. DA/SA auto...

[daved20319]

Probably an odd question, but for those that have used both, how does the DA pull on a Ruger Redhawk compare to a "typical" DA/SA pistol in DA mode? I've read reviews that say the Redhawk trigger isn't all that great, but I have next to no experience with any DA/SA revolvers, so all I have to compare it to is DA/SA pistols. I've had a fair number of those in the last couple of years, several CZ's, a CZ clone, a Taurus 92, and my current fave, a Sig P220R. Have been going back and forth between getting a revolver or a DAO pistol, I really do want something for working on my DA trigger work, this is just one more piece of the puzzle. Thanks!

Dave

PS I'm talking stock trigger on the Ruger, basically as it would be out of the box. Thanks again.

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[Certaindeaf]

It's moot. Get the Redhawk and master it.
Dry fire the heck out of it, DA using the sights, and cast your own bullets and reload your own ammunition so you might have a hope of doing so.

 

[Idaho44]

Wolff tune up springs are a great place to start. And practice, practice, practice.....

 

[DunRanull]

The Redhawk trigger isnt a Python (and never will be) but responds well to new spring and a bit of stoning/polishing..

 

[daved20319]

Thanks, guys, all good info, but not really what I was asking. My question is, how does it feel compared to a typical DA/SA pistol like a CZ or Sig? I realize that will be very subjective, but my primary reason for going to a revolver is to get in lots of DA practice without having to drop the hammer between every shot. If the DA pull is totally different, I'm not sure it be very helpful, although I'm sure it will be fun, I'm currently bidding on a .45 LC only Redhawk. Don't really need something that big, but at least I can share bullets between it and my .45 ACP's, and it will offer a lot of flexibility being able to load it up or down. I considered some others, and some other calibers, but cost was a major factor, this will be a range toy, not a combat gun, and just about everything else I was interested in had a considerably higher starting bid. Kicking myself a little bit, the other alternative is a DAO pistol, I chose not to bid on a Beretta 92D, it ended up going for just over the starting bid of $400 . Later.

Dave

 

[OldBroad44]

The sa/da semiautos you mention are da on the first shot only. Shooting them isnt much like shooting a da revolver. For SD purposes, at ordinary self defense ranges, most people, myself included, shoot a revolver da only. SA requires manually cocking the revolver for each sa shot. Entirely different pattern from the SA/DA pistols.

Even that first da shot on the pistols isnt much like a da shot on a revolver like the Redhawk. I had a Redhawk .44 at one point. Have a Super Redhawk now. These are big guns with a heavier hammer that moves through a longer distance than the semiautos you mention. If the point is to learn to shoot da/sa semiautos better, I think it would be a lot more efficient to simply practice more with the semiautos. If you master da shooting with a revolver, you certainly will be much better with the da first shot on the sa/da pistols. But it would be sorta like learning to ride a Harley in order to improve your skills on a tricycle.

Ruger triggers are only "not that great" compared to sw and colt revolvers. They can, as mentioned, be lightened with replacement springs and smoothed by much dry-firing and/or polishing. But even out of the box the triggers are good compared with any other new revolvers on the shelf these days except the smiths.

Im wondering why a Ruger Redhawk? And in .357 or .44?

And is there any chance you might be interested on getting a good revolver and mastering it for its own sake?

 

[OldBroad44]

Your last post came in while I was writing mine.

Actually, the DA on the Ruger Redhawk isnt going to be very similar to the DA on your pistols. If it were me, I wouldnt bother getting the Ruger for that reason.

But since you're unfamiliar with revolvers, if you would like to explore them, the .45acp Ruger gives you an opportunity while allowing you to stick with a familiar caliber. And if you're just looking for an excuse to buy another gun, its not the worst excuse Ive heard.

 

[oremike]

My .02 worth what you paid for it ,double action revolvers vs double action pistols. Double action revolvers have longer and heaver trigger pull due to the mechanics of cocking hammer and rotating the cylinder, a proper polishing job will make this very smooth and easy to stay on target when pulling through. They also can be shot double action every shot so each pull of the trigger feels the same. Lastly they they are easy to bring into service, just point and pull the trigger.
Double action pistols tend to have gritty triggers that really can't be polished out due to the stacking of slip surfaces. Then there is the is the transition for DA to SA for the second and more shots. The abruptness can be quite startling. Lastly most have a decocker / safety of some sort that has to be manipulated to bring to service. Manipulating this can be problematic for some such as myself being left handed in a right handed world.
Bottom line, they are so different that training with one to get better with the other will be difficult. Why not get good with both in their own right, after all the correct number of guns is just one more.

 

[daved20319]

All good points, Mike, and you more or less reminded me of some things I knew but had either forgotten or just hadn't thought about. I need to clarify a few things, though. It's not that I'm unfamiliar with revolvers, it's just that it's been years since I had or shot one. One of the advantages of buying used guns, all my pistols have at least good triggers, both DA and SA, and all have decockers. Yes, I've focused on DA work by decocking after every shot, but it gets old and kind of interferes with my rhythm, if you know what I mean. And I also spend a fair amount of time on DA to SA transitions, I don't have the guns I have by chance, they were chosen for their specific characteristics. Fortunately, I'm not a south paw, so the "normal" control arrangement works fine for me. And BTW, I do understand the mechanics of a revolver, the one thing I hadn't thought about was the length of the DA pull due to the necessary hammer arc.

OB, I was looking at .45 ACP revolvers, but the price is up there, and there aren't a lot of choices. I'd been considering a GP 100 in .38/.357, but but again, cost. I've always liked the Redhawk, and I've been intrigued by the .45 LC cartridge for a long time, add in the lesser cost of the .45 LC only RH, and it's like the universe is telling me this is the right choice . Several days left on the particular auction I'm bidding on, so who knows.

As to spring kits to lighten the DA pull, I've read that this can cause ignition problems with the SA pull. I'll be looking into this some more, but for now, I'm inclined to stay with the stock setup. Lots of folks complain about the reset on the Sig P220, saying an SRT kit is pretty much mandatory, but I like mine just as it is, and I shoot pretty damn well, too .

Thanks again to all who responded, will post more if I win the auction. Later.

Dave

 

[dmack]

I have both guns you mentioned. The sig .45 is fairly smooth throughout the trigger pull and stays consistent, but as others have mentioned, after the first shot you are in single action mode, so there is a significant change with subsequent shots.

With my redhawk in 45lc, the pull is significantly longer and has a clunkier feel due to the multiple functions of is doing (cylinder rotation, lockup, cocking and releasing the hammer). Nothing insurmountable.

If you are thinking of using 45acp bullets re loaded into a 45lc case, keep in mind they are a different diameter (.451 vs .454). Not sure the affect on accuracy as I haven't tried it.

 

[OldBroad44]

I've also been intrigued with the possibilities of the .45 LC in a Ruger, though in my case it's the Super Redhawk .454 Casull/.45 LC that I have spent time coveting. That's simply cause I prefer SRHk to RHK, though, having had both in .44. I wouldnt be planning to shoot .454 Casull. Higher cost and more recoil than I want. What intrigues me is the possibility of shooting .45 +P in addition to .45LC. That .45 +P is essentially a .45 magnum. Up to a bit more powerful than .44 mag but with fatter bullet. Probably the same reason you're intrigued.

Sounds like your intrigue about the possibilities of the Redhawk with .45 LC is the main motivation, and buying a revolver to learn to shoot your pistols better is just an excuse. As a NWFA buddy, I consider it my duty to help with such excuse making. Accordingly: Hey, Dave--I just went to Ruger website, and they are no longer listing any Redhawk .45 LCs. They might have discontinued it. !!!

 

[daved20319]

Enabler! Have I mentioned how much I like that about you ? Yeah, busted, it is mostly an excuse, but I have to rationalize this stuff to myself somehow . I was just on Ruger's site myself, they still have the .45 ACP/.45 LC, but no LC only anymore. Might be why it's one of the least expensive Redhawks currently on GB?

Never been a fan of the .44 Mag, but my first gun (and first love) was a 3 screw Blackhawk in .41 Mag. Lost that one years ago to some "friends" I left my stuff with while on West Pac. Bought several New Model Blackhawks over the years, but they just never felt right. Had a S&W 57 for awhile, nickeled, 8-3/8" barrel, big silver hawg leg, but just not practical at the time, I ended up trading it off on my first 1911. Got away from guns almost entirely for close to 20 years, then bought my first new pistol about 4 years ago, and it's been nothing but pistols ever since. Figured it was time to add a revolver to the line-up, even if it means letting one of the pistols go. Anyway, being able to go heavy or light offers a lot of flexibility, although I never expect to want or need any of those bear killing loads. Later, and thanks again.

Dave

 

[OldBroad44]

But the Redhawk .45 LC/.45 ACP should not be fired with .45 LC +P. So you really need the .45 LC only.

Your friendly enabler,
Carol

 

[orygun]

My .02 worth what you paid for it ,double action revolvers vs double action pistols. Double action revolvers have longer and heaver trigger pull due to the mechanics of cocking hammer and rotating the cylinder,

A lot of that depends on the DA pistol. I've shot two that had DA pulls much longer than any DA revolver I've ever shot. S&W Bodyguard and one of those small Kahrs. HOLY COW those pistols had very long trigger pulls. Some of the older S&W duty pistols had a very similar DA pull to a revolver.

I'd think the Redhawk would be worth trying.

 

[The Heretic]

I have both guns you mentioned. The sig .45 is fairly smooth throughout the trigger pull and stays consistent, but as others have mentioned, after the first shot you are in single action mode, so there is a significant change with subsequent shots.

With my redhawk in 45lc, the pull is significantly longer and has a clunkier feel due to the multiple functions of is doing (cylinder rotation, lockup, cocking and releasing the hammer). Nothing insurmountable.

This - I have a number of revolvers (not Redhawks) and ^^ more or less describes my opinion of the trigger pull on any of my SIGs (224, 226, 227, 229, 2022) vs any of my revolvers.

Also, you can make significant improvements with the SIGs - install a SRT trigger, send it to The SIG Armorer to have him lighten and smooth out the trigger, install an SRT or QRT in addition to the trigger work. This is what I will do with some of my SIGs once things settle down and I am more sure of what my income will be. There isn't a whole lot you can do about the DA trigger on a revolver having to rotate the cylinder in addition to cocking the hammer. I've had a couple of revolvers that have nice DA triggers - such as either of my PC S&Ws - but there is only so much they can do due to the design of a revolver.

 

[OldBroad44]

The da on a ruger smooths out a lot from use or dry firing. I bought my Super Redhawk 9.5 inch about a year ago. DA was pretty heavy, and seemed to be two stage. That is, if I wanted, I could pull trigger da so as to essentially cock hammer. Then drop hammer with the next increment of the da pull. However, that isnt how I shoot da. Now, many thousands of rounds of DA dry firing later, the DA is smooth, and not two stage at all. I bought the gun used. I suspect gun started with a hitch representing the point in trigger pull where the action changes from cocking to releasing trigger, and first owner liked that, and fired or dry fired it that way.

Ive found that when firing a big heavy revolver da, it takes a stronger left hand grip than when firing revolvers sa or firing most full size pistols. (im right handed.) And pressure from left thumb really matters. Thats my ordinary grip shooting a revolver either sa or da now. Lighter gripping of the gun with either hand, but especially non-trigger-finger hand is simply not as good at controlling the gun against the force required to cycle gun either sa or da. This is true for any gun. But with a revolver its lots more obvious.

Likewise, when firing a big heavy revolver with one hand, the grip has to be really fiercely tight. Thats probably best for optimal control of any gun, but its most obvious firing or dry firing a heavy revolver da.

Its often said that shooting a revolver makes you a better shooter of any handgun. I suspect this is true, but pertains only to shooting revolvers da.

 

[daved20319]

Make that enabler PLUS, Carol ! Now you're getting me excited about snagging one of these, whereas before, I sort of felt like I was settling. Not worried about actually shooting it, I'm not bothered by heavy handguns, my CZ 97 BD comes in at 47 oz. with 10 rounds of .45 ACP on board. I make a point of practicing with all my pistols shooting one handed, both strong and weak, and both DA and SA. Worth noting, I actually tend to shoot my pistols better DA. Of course, I also shoot them a lot slower that way, but when I really bear down and focus on fundamentals, my shooting is better DA than SA, and the Sig is better than the CZ, which has a much lighter trigger, go figure . Sad ending to this story, if I win the bid on the Ruger, the CZ will be looking for a new home. My Sig, I plan on being buried with .

Curious what you meant about left thumb pressure, my grip usually has both thumbs basically floating, neither thumb is actually touching the pistol. Bear with me, as I said earlier, it's been a LOOONNNGGG time since I last shot a revolver of any kind.

As to revolvers making you a better shooter, I've been there before, in a way. I spent the better part of 10 years focused exclusively on air guns, and a large part of that was spring piston rifles. When I finally went back to shooting powder burners, the techniques required to shoot a springer well carried over to firearms. I had never considered myself a rifleman, but now, if I can see it, I can hit it, and I attribute that to all the trigger time with air guns.

Well, time to go finish dinner, later.

Dave