Thread Cleaning

[Joe Link]

Several members have contacted me with concerns regarding their posts being deleted, specifically in this thread: https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/how-do-you-store-your-firearms.199063/

Though I understand why this could be frustrating, maintaining a clean and orderly forum is one of the main responsibilities of our moderators. This has happened from the beginning of Northwest Firearms, and likely happens on almost every forum you visit. The difference is that in the name of transparency, we have opted to allow members to see the deletion notices which normally only staff can see. I'm sure this was also more noticeable due to the number of posts deleted from that thread.

Those who want some perspective, consider this. A new member, GREGULON, asked a simple and useful firearm-related question. This is a perfect example of one of the fundamental purposes of this site. The first couple of replies to the thread are honest and educational, but it doesn't take long for the thread to go off the rails. Just before 11PM the post count was in the 30's, with the vast majority useless and completely unrelated to the question. This wouldn't be an issue in the off-topic section, but it's inappropriate when a new member is trying to use the site for the purpose it was created.

The negatives that go hand in hand with allowing this in a forum environment are proven and long-lasting. New members are discouraged from posting sincere questions, people visiting for the first time are left with an bad impression, and our credibility takes a hit with people in the industry.

We work far too hard trying to get new members here and make them feel comfortable enough to ask basic questions. I won't allow this to become an unwelcoming environment, and I hope you won't either. Lets try to keep threads in the appropriate sections on-topic and useful, and save the other stuff for the off-topic section.

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[Kruel J]

Couldn't agree more. There are more than a few members here that forget what it was like to be new to firearms. Frankly a "newb" is just another fellow American that has decided to enjoy our rights and freedoms as much as we do. Lets not push them away from it. Egos should be checked at the front door along with the coats. You'll get a ticket, don't worry.

 

[Velzey]

Great job!

Some people think this is Facebook!

 

[Stomper]

It's strange political times, friends. You have proven anti-2A forces hiring trolls to infiltrate pro-2A internet sites to either stir the shiete to make the place miserable, or goad people into saying stupid things so they can be cut and pasted out of context to be used for anti-2A purposes, or just compose profiles on certain "well known" forum memebers.

Perhaps it was just coincidental that a HUGE number of "newbies" signed up on this forum during the SB941 BS is Salem, then a new thread starts (by a "newbie") just as a "safe storage" bill is being bandied about by our statists loving legislature... but then again, maybe it's NOT a coincidence.

 

[Joe Link]

There really is no upside to letting paranoia and what-ifs dictate our course of action

 

[Stomper]

I don't even recall what I posted in that thread, but I know it wasn't a "pig pile on the newbie" post.


BTW- who's that 16-year old kid in your avatar?

 

[deadeye]

It's strange political times, friends.
Perhaps it was just coincidental that a HUGE number of "newbies" signed up on this forum during the SB941 BS is Salem, then a new thread starts (by a "newbie") just as a "safe storage" bill is being bandied about by our statists loving legislature... but then again, maybe it's NOT a coincidence.

What you failed to realize is that the "newbie" you are referring to joined the forum on April 17th 2012.

 

[Velzey]

April 17th 2012 was exactly what I noticed also...And all the old Newbs that have joined after him were jumping him!

 

[Stomper]

What you failed to realize is that the "newbie" you are referring to joined the forum on April 17th 2012.

Except I've been here since 2008 AND my post wasn't an accusatory post, probably just one of my usual smart-arsed quips that was relabled "useless drivel".

 

[rick benjamin]

Joe, Deadeye, and unsung heros
Thanks for all your work that goes into this pig rodeo!I like!

 

[etrain16]

My first thoughts are that this is Joe's forum, and he gets to set the rules as well as make the interpretation of those rules. If I don't like them, or how they are applied, I'll go somewhere else.

As to moderation here, it does, sometimes, seem to me to be a bit uneven. Some posts remain up that are controversial, inflammatory, even derogatory at times, while others that seemed to be none of those things are removed. I guess part of that is the different filter that people use when reading a post, and how it's perceived by them. I'm also guessing that it's possible a person reported a certain post(s) to the mods and they took action after being notified that someone was bothered. Either way, moderating a forum is a somewhat thankless task, and one that certainly puts a target on your back.

Personally, if I had a post removed that I thought wasn't really worthy of such an action, I would PM @Joe Link directly and let him know my thoughts about it. I probably wouldn't b!tch about it in a thread - since that really wouldn't do any good. Joe will listen to your complaints/comments/suggestions - he's done so for me in the past. And I do think Joe is a fair guy in his administration of this site. But even fair people may get it wrong from time to time. The mods answer to Joe, so ultimately, he is the last word. If you're not happy with a decision, bring it up to him, directly in a PM. He's always been good about responding in my experience.

In my mind, being a mod is kind of like being a cop or a politician. No matter what you do or say, you're likely to piss off or offend someone. Not a particularly fun position to be in.

 

[Mikej]

When I see a passel of well known, friendly, well written, responsible forum members messages deleted with reason like "Useless Drivel" and "Useless Post" it concerns me because I know these people to be helpful and courteous. The poster that started the thread wasn't a newbie. And new to this forum doesn't mean new to forums in general. There's a ton of stuff on these pages that COULD be considered useless drivel by a moderator if they wanted to really nit-pick, where's the line? I didn't see any of the "offending" posts so I can only go by what I know of the handles of the posters and I've never seen such a thing in my time here.

If clicks are all that matter and posting isn't what makes the site successful then delete away!

 

[Mikej]

My first thoughts are that this is Joe's forum, and he gets to set the rules as well as make the interpretation of those rules. If I don't like them, or how they are applied, I'll go somewhere else.

As to moderation here, it does, sometimes, seem to me to be a bit uneven. Some posts remain up that are controversial, inflammatory, even derogatory at times, while others that seemed to be none of those things are removed. I guess part of that is the different filter that people use when reading a post, and how it's perceived by them. I'm also guessing that it's possible a person reported a certain post(s) to the mods and they took action after being notified that someone was bothered. Either way, moderating a forum is a somewhat thankless task, and one that certainly puts a target on your back.

Personally, if I had a post removed that I thought wasn't really worthy of such an action, I would PM @Joe Link directly and let him know my thoughts about it. I probably wouldn't b!tch about it in a thread - since that really wouldn't do any good. Joe will listen to your complaints/comments/suggestions - he's done so for me in the past. And I do think Joe is a fair guy in his administration of this site. But even fair people may get it wrong from time to time. The mods answer to Joe, so ultimately, he is the last word. If you're not happy with a decision, bring it up to him, directly in a PM. He's always been good about responding in my experience.

In my mind, being a mod is kind of like being a cop or a politician. No matter what you do or say, you're likely to piss off or offend someone. Not a particularly fun position to be in.

I'm not going to cry to the boss if/when I have a post deleted, that'll just get the mod looking for you to make SURE you're toeing in line. And I see how the forum members at NWFA police themselves as far as inflammatory posts/posters.....We pretty much only make a statement or two, or ignore it/them and move on with the discussion. It's not the inflammatory post/poster that causes a thread to go in the crapper it's when every one of the "Kids" in the group come out to pile on that ruins a thread. If you read ifish you'll know what I'm talking about.

In the end it's what Joe Link says and we can all live with that I think.

 

[etrain16]

I'm not going to cry to the boss if/when I have a post deleted, that'll just get the mod looking for you to make SURE you're toeing in line. And I see how the forum members at NWFA police themselves as far as inflammatory posts/posters.....We pretty much only make a statement or two, or ignore it/them and move on with the discussion. It's not the inflammatory post/poster that causes a thread to go in the crapper it's when every one of the "Kids" in the group come out to pile on that ruins a thread. If you read ifish you'll know what I'm talking about.

In the end it's what Joe Link says and we can all live with that I think.

Maybe the intent of my comment wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting "crying to the boss", but rather bringing it to his attention. By Joe's own admission, he can't possibly read every thread or post, which is why he has moderators to help out. If you think a post was removed unfairly or for the wrong reason, he needs to be aware so he can, if necessary, review that policy with the mods, who work for him. Otherwise, it goes unnoticed and no corrections can be made. It gives you an opportunity to help, potentially, make things better.

 

[Mikej]

No etrain, those were my words. I've never been one to notify the boss or mods unless it was something truly harmful to persons or the web site.

I see useless drivel, off topic and varying degrees of inflammatory all the time on websites, that's what the scroll wheel and back button are for. I don't disagree with you though

 

[thorborg]

Some of the "useless dribble" derogatory, or down right mean things commented, while maybe not eliminated, could possibly be abated with the addition of a "not like" button. I never understood why some things may be validated (and encouraged) with a simple click of the "like" button but to express discontent one must leave a comment. Some, it seems, thrive on this form of recognition so may be detoured if a negative button was juxtaposed to the existing positive button with equal access. I would hit a "not like button" ( likely more often than a "like" button) whereas in both cases I would not leave a comment.
Might not assistance towards behavior modification be as simple as a click?

 

[3MTA3]

Just a thought - I've been on forums where moderated posts were hidden, but could still be read by read by clicking a button. It would keep the thread on track, and curious people could still see what was removed. I think that would also be helpful to the moderator as well.

For example, the thread that started this had something like 50% of the posts deleted, including my feeble attempt at humor. That's bound to raise an eyebrow without some sort of explanation. If we could see those posts we might understand why the moderator thought it was drivel, and there wouldn't be such an uproar. Obviously some posts would still be deleted from view, for example racist or otherwise offensive.

Please realize that the human mind wants explanations, and if they aren't available, will invent them. Usually what people will invent as explanations are more negative than positive, where the real explanation is usually pretty neutral.

 

[bolus]

Do you guys like waffles? Waffles are awesome!

 

[IronMonster]

(post removed through self moderation)

Trying to preempt action and do my part!

 

[IronMonster]

Ok, so that is useless, pointless drivel. However the post I made that was removed in the named thread was on topic, had nothing that was derogatory or inflammatory. It was structured in such a way as to be humorous, nevertheless it was contributing to the thread and the fact the post had a number of likes I would say was a good indication that others if they did not find it pertinent at least enjoyed it.

I have had times I was quite torqued over posts being removed. One instance in particular where my thread was merged with another that really was nothing like mine ( if the mod would have read the posts it would have been clear that even though the threads where about a particular platform the topics where unrelated. What really irritated me at the time was the issue was breaking news and a big deal, however the mod felt it should be merged with a dead thread and seemed unwilling to even listen to why my topic should had had its own thread.

Anyway, this instance did not bother me, but the shear volume of removed posts was surprising.

I do understand there are greater conserns at play and try to not get emotional or take things personal but sometimes I fail and act out like a spoiled 3 year old.