Oregon The Mask Is Off

[ZigZagZeke]

Hmm I want a job where I get paid 6 figures and spend member money how I feel like.
And all I have to do is give people hope ?
OFF has failed to accomplish much in 20 years and was paid allot.
No bill boards, no radio spots, just tells everyone look out and send me money.

I just had a conversation with Kevin Starrett last evening about this very topic. I posted on Facebook that our NRA-ILA rep for Oregon, Keely Hopkins, was meeting with state legislators yesterday (close to 100 likes there so far) and he immediately questioned who she was meeting with and why. I suggested that he ask her. He said she would not respond to his emails or phone calls and went off on this tangent about how the NRA hadn't supported this or that in Oregon and basically badmouthed them. When another person was critical of his statements he berated that individual. I commented that that kind of divisive behavior made me have second thoughts about supporting his organization financially. He said I was welcome to stop donating. This all or nothing purist crap is our biggest enemy as firearms rights supporters and gun owners. Newsflash: We will never agree perfectly on everything related to the 2A. We need to find a way to tolerate our differences and work together against the REAL enemy. "Shall not infringe" is a nice sentiment, but in the real world firearms regulations and the case law supporting them have been in place for nearly 100 years. The USSC is not going to reverse that overnight. We will always have some regulation. That's simply reality.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

if these laws pass and nothing changes, then what? turn them in or else? door to door consfiscation??

i dont understand the logic in making more laws will prevent criminals from doing bad things. all these laws will do is make more criminals.

that and if they expect any compliance from rural parts of oregon they are surely mistaken.

 

[Mister Bisley]

I just had a conversation with Kevin Starrett last evening about this very topic. I posted on Facebook that our NRA-ILA rep for Oregon, Keely Hopkins, was meeting with state legislators yesterday (close to 100 likes there so far) and he immediately questioned who she was meeting with and why. I suggested that he ask her. He said she would not respond to his emails or phone calls and went off on this tangent about how the NRA hadn't supported this or that in Oregon and basically badmouthed them. When another person was critical of his statements he berated that individual. I commented that that kind of divisive behavior made me have second thoughts about supporting his organization financially. He said I was welcome to stop donating. This all or nothing purist crap is our biggest enemy as firearms rights supporters and gun owners. Newsflash: We will never agree perfectly on everything related to the 2A. We need to find a way to tolerate our differences and work together against the REAL enemy. "Shall not infringe" is a nice sentiment, but in the real world firearms regulations and the case law supporting them have been in place for nearly 100 years. The USSC is not going to reverse that overnight. We will always have some regulation. That's simply reality.

FWIW, I get plenty of emails and alerts from the NRA-ILA about what's going on in OR and pretty much every other state and what they're planning to do about it. OFF acts like they're are MIA.

Do they touch every little thing, no, but they are involved.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

plenty of examples where magazines with a capacity of more than 5 or even 10 were necessary to defend life.

restricting mag capacity puts lives at risk.

what if 4 people attack you and in the heat of the moment and being only allowed 20 rounds a month and 5 round mags, you miss a few times due to lack of practice or adrenaline or whatever else...youre dead. not them.

there is NO sense in that.

also, what about us sportsmen? a lot of us hunt with rifles. making a humane, ethical shot requires practice. i shoot hundreds of rounds a year in preparation for hunting season. perhaps a lot of wounded animals will be lost due to poor shot placement as a result of lack of practice? waterfoul hunters can EASILLY go through 20 rounds in only a couple flocks of geese, ducks, quail, phaesent....


if anyone can tell me how this would be a good thing id be willing to listen.


if these laws pass, i have made my decision. i will be an outlaw.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I hear ya. I never got making gun laws for folks who wouldn't be a problem anyway. A criminal obviously isn't law-abiding, so the rules really only restrict the common man. Taking our guns, or neutering them in any way, just gives the bad-guy more advantage.

It's not about gun safety or crime prevention. That's just the cover story. The anti-gun nuts really just hate guns and hate you for owning and using them. They fear everything about you, your independence of thought, your self-reliance, your confidence, and your ability to protect yourself. They view these qualities as anti-social. You're supposed to be reliant on the group, and to think only approved thoughts. If you stray outside the box they might have to deal with you and that scares them. Hence, they want to control you.

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

It's a country where (ideally at least) the majority wins. If the majority want's gun control, then, against my own beliefs, it should be so.

America's form of government is a Republic, not a Democracy. The majority cannot take away my rights!

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

IMO, most are just acting out of fear. From a lack of real understanding. I'm sure most anti-gun folks wouldn't be so if they knew better and opened their mind a bit. But thanks to the talking heads on TV, they adopt a belief system that's faulty. For what really amounts more to ratings than safety. :/

That's where education can surmount issues, but so few want to be educated. The us-VS-them mentally seems built-in to humanity.

i have found that a lot of "them" have never even fired a weapon. when the world ends they'll be the first to go begging for someone with a gun to help them.

im 30 years old. i got my first gun when i was 5 or 6 years old. i understand everyone has a different upbringing. we all have the same rights though. i think if the shoe was on the other foot "they" would feel like "us"

a right is a right. not a priveledge. the 2nd is there to protect all others.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

and for the record, i vote conservative though i do not agree with all conservative values. i have plenty of gun owning left leaning friends who have jumped ship and get mad at anti gunner politicians because thats all they hear about is how we need to get rid of guns instead of trying to address real issues.

 

[DuneHopper]

I just had a conversation with Kevin Starrett last evening about this very topic. I posted on Facebook that our NRA-ILA rep for Oregon, Keely Hopkins, was meeting with state legislators yesterday (close to 100 likes there so far) and he immediately questioned who she was meeting with and why. I suggested that he ask her. He said she would not respond to his emails or phone calls and went off on this tangent about how the NRA hadn't supported this or that in Oregon and basically badmouthed them. When another person was critical of his statements he berated that individual. I commented that that kind of divisive behavior made me have second thoughts about supporting his organization financially. He said I was welcome to stop donating. This all or nothing purist crap is our biggest enemy as firearms rights supporters and gun owners. Newsflash: We will never agree perfectly on everything related to the 2A. We need to find a way to tolerate our differences and work together against the REAL enemy. "Shall not infringe" is a nice sentiment, but in the real world firearms regulations and the case law supporting them have been in place for nearly 100 years. The USSC is not going to reverse that overnight. We will always have some regulation. That's simply reality.

I understand what you are saying, most are not aware the NRA once on their own pushed to stop conceal carry.
And yes their have been many regulations, but also many definitions of pro-gun laws have been presented and passed into law resulting in supporting our rights.

Sounds like you have OFF dialed in, its about the way I know him. Most are unaware that SB941 was to be much worse and Kevin all on his own almost accomplished making it worse. He reminds me allot of an untrained Pitbull, froths at the mouth and bites everything its sees, even if its detrimental to himself. If Kevin had not been stopped the simple loaning of firearms to family as well as purchasing for other immediate family, would not have made it in law, and it would have been illegal to share and gift.
Its OFF's double standard that has always ticked me off. He wants power and influence and respect, yet has zero social skills at all. Reminds me of the drunk guy in the bar, yelling at everyone and making a scene. And then gets mad when he is thrown out.
Many here at NWFA donate to OFF. Even though he has caused nearly as much harm as the anti-gunners. Hes aggressive F-off
attitude, is not how politics work. Be mad , be aggressive, but don't act nuts and then make law makers think you represent us.
These are my opinions based on my own personal interactions with Kevin, that and I do not trust him.

In closing being a purist is one thing, that means you support the words of the Constitution, and that is a good thing, because our politicians take the same oath. But what is not coo,l is making us look worse as well as crazy and uneducated.

 

[Mister Bisley]

I think it's absolutely effed that we must spend this much time, energy and frustration fighting these anti's tooth and nail, for something that is a natural right. Imagine how much more productive society could be and where those time and money resources could go, if this were left alone.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Great post! Sadly, that represents most hot-button viewpoints. It's the loud (and sometimes wealthy) minority who get the attention.

Some of us would rather be left alone to our own accords. IMO, don't make new laws for folks who won't obey them anyway.

i would much prefer to be left alone. existing laws need to be enforced.

 

[DuneHopper]

Great post! Sadly, that represents most hot-button viewpoints. It's the loud (and sometimes wealthy) minority who get the attention.
Some of us would rather be left alone to our own accords. IMO, don't make new laws for folks who won't obey them anyway.

This is true, but we really do not need and aging, white gun owner acting irrational, feeding stereotypes, and then saying he represents Oregon Gun Owners. I know gun owners that are his members take him serious, problem is most don't. I live in the most conservative place in ( arguably of course) Oregon and no one here likes the guy or his fakery,( yes I know its not a word).
Most here do not like or respect him in this County, because he takes allot of cash and does zip with it.

I have asked, when has OFF paid for
Billboards
Radio spots
Newpaper spots.

I can tell you cease fire Oregon gets out and gets heard and spends money.
Granted I am sure its Soros money, but come on now Kevin has got probably millions
and has not done much of anything in 20 years lots of time o build a good defense and a strong offense.
Hes not a visionary, hes not even aware of the political machine. And yet thousands follow him
right down that rabbit hole.

 

[Superglide]

Dunehopper I sense you don't like the guy.
But we are splintering here. Self-dissolving whatever chance at a unified attack we may get. Ourselves.

A frothing psychotic pitbull, hmmm. OK then lets play their game and win. We will compromise. Here it is.
Enforce existing laws and the pitbull goes into the kennel. Look what we just gave you.

501 is too nuts to pass. But it IS a smokescreen to divert us.

 

[DuneHopper]

You mentioned something of a sorts a couple times now. But from my POV, I don't pay much attention to billboards, I rarely listen to a radio (I have an MP3 collection larger than most stations), and haven't read a newspaper in at least a decade. So, where's the money better spent to reach folks like me, whom which I doubt is the minority?

IMO, the same place the opposing viewpoints put it... lobbyists and mainstream "news".
If I can get a PAC or lobby group, or a CNN/FOX talking head to share my viewpoint, it's solid gold.
People are so easily swayed by a stranger on a screen.

They make more into law than most of us would appreciate. If you want your POV to be established, ya have to pay for it.
But that's a whole new debate.

You are correct,
Here is and analogy.

I am a fortune teller, and every month you come to me and pay to hear me read your future.
But every month I am wrong, yet year after year you still pay me huge money, and yet I
never changed your life by anything I said.

I do not know what would work, I do know OFF says write testimony, and gives us addresses and updates.
So do many members here as well as the NRA, often well before OFF.
So with these millions no doubt what is being done with it all? And obviously they are not accountable to members.
But there is the problem, OFF presents no POV, their website is left overs from 2005, no news there same old stuff.
Mean while the opposition, uses fresh approaches to the masses. We do not need to convince gun owners to support gun rights.
We need to stop the opposition from dominating anyone one under 35, and that takes hitting them where they would listen.
No one cares about white haired grey beards standing on the steps in Salem. Not the ones we want to care.

 

[Herb g]

Sometimes it's just a matter of getting people aware and perhaps motivated.

For example, Cheerleaders don't score points, but they're still useful.
View attachment 540936

I gave you a "like", even though you're a demo, but only for the cheerleaders...so don't let it go to your head.

 

[nammac]

Sometimes it's just a matter of getting people aware and perhaps motivated.

For example, Cheerleaders don't score points, but they're still useful.
View attachment 540936

Now, that's the only kinda gun control I'd be willing to accept

 

[Herb g]

Ha! Someone PM'd me why I "liked" a post I seem to disagree with.

To answer for all, I like the discourse, even if I don't agree with it. I appreciate an opposing and intelligent response just as well as one I favor.

I often change my mind based upon new information.

View attachment 541127

Just like the Catholic choirboy hoax ?

 

[Herb g]

Yet, here we are, fighting for our Rights.

Here's one of many pages you can find via a web-search to give you more insight to the differences between a Republic and a Democracy. I'm sure you have something against anything that isn't FOX "news", but it's the first of about a gazillion hits on the subject. Plenty of examples well-debated by folks smarter than either of us.

"... there is no basis for saying that the United States is somehow "not a democracy, but a republic." "Democracy" and "republic" aren't just words that a speaker can arbitrarily define to mean something (e.g., defining democracy as "a form of government in which all laws are made directly by the people"). They are terms that have been given meaning by English speakers more broadly. And both today and in the Framing era, "democracy" has been generally understood to include representative democracy as well as direct democracy."

Just curious where a well educated and informed person like yourself gets your news?

 

[E4mafia]

They wore a mask? I thought they were pretty up front about it for a long while now. Gun control has been a heated debate since before I was born.


I never asked for this.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I understand what you are saying, most are not aware the NRA once on their own pushed to stop conceal carry.
And yes their have been many regulations, but also many definitions of pro-gun laws have been presented and passed into law resulting in supporting our rights.

Sounds like you have OFF dialed in, its about the way I know him. Most are unaware that SB941 was to be much worse and Kevin all on his own almost accomplished making it worse. He reminds me allot of an untrained Pitbull, froths at the mouth and bites everything its sees, even if its detrimental to himself. If Kevin had not been stopped the simple loaning of firearms to family as well as purchasing for other immediate family, would not have made it in law, and it would have been illegal to share and gift.
Its OFF's double standard that has always ticked me off. He wants power and influence and respect, yet has zero social skills at all. Reminds me of the drunk guy in the bar, yelling at everyone and making a scene. And then gets mad when he is thrown out.
Many here at NWFA donate to OFF. Even though he has caused nearly as much harm as the anti-gunners. Hes aggressive F-off
attitude, is not how politics work. Be mad , be aggressive, but don't act nuts and then make law makers think you represent us.
These are my opinions based on my own personal interactions with Kevin, that and I do not trust him.

In closing being a purist is one thing, that means you support the words of the Constitution, and that is a good thing, because our politicians take the same oath. But what is not coo,l is making us look worse as well as crazy and uneducated.

Truer words were never spoken. I think you are spot on with Kevin and his attitude.