The AntiGun State.

[Tony617]

I just posted in another thread- compromise not polarize. DuneHopper was not saying any side was right more than another. Just pointing out the make-up of the citizenry. Of course my thinking is the correct thinking. All believe that.
Where there is a problem is the Constitution can legally be amended, like say the Bill of Rights. Or Prohibition. Some good, some bad ideas. I definitely believe left group A has a sinister agenda and I want to eliminate it. I, like all here, also am abhorred by the killers of children and want to eliminate that. We have not enough gun laws, we have too many. More is not the answer. All need to focus on fixing the cracks and failures in the system. Start on that platform and plan and think, not react and shout.

Just remember you have to have 2/3 majority to repeal any amendment. Are there enough states to vote to repeal the 2nd amendment yet? Maybe in the future? East Coast and West Coast there are already.

 

[nammac]

I said it n another thread, gun owners have been compromising since 1934! We need to stand against any further infringement. If they want tougher laws, then enforce the ones they already have, make those who have failed the system that's currently in place accountable. Fix the brokens with the current systems and processes, so those who are threats to our communities have appropriate actions taken against them.

And in Parkland, Sheriff Israel is personally responsible for the 17 deaths, as they have a "no arrest" agreement in place with the school board regarding students...

Time to hold those accountable who aided in this unspeakable tragedy. It sure as he!! Isn't the 100+ million gun owners in this country...

 

[Ura-Ki]

Every one forgets one immutable fact, the constitution cannot be changed with out a vote of congress, it cannot be changed by SCOTUS, and cannot be changed by POTUS, SO how in ffks sake can the States or any politicos actually change it! State A.G's Mayors, Gov'ners Sheriff's the whole effin lot of them are in complete violation of the laws of the constitution and any changes to it!

 

[MasterChief]

 

[Ura-Ki]

The POTUS issues executive orders, Stat3s selectively ignore or counter and a lawful order, local officials, justices, and State A.G. declare those orders illegal, and demand they be struck down! Who is in control here, who is the President of these States United? SCOTUS are corrupt, they are to be natural arbiters of Constitutnal law, and yet they let political agenda sway the vote instead of adhering to the written word, or worse falsely claim it a living document subject to the wind and current favor of the elite masters, and a New York Billionair who buys out entire elections! Just who is in charge here, who are the real leaders, and why must we suffer under the boot of socialisism where our republic is dismantled piece by piece by those unqualified to have any voice or vote!

Rant just getting started!

 

[nammac]

The POTUS issues executive orders, Stat3s selectively ignore or counter and a lawful order, local officials, justices, and State A.G. declare those orders illegal, and demand they be struck down! Who is in control here, who is the President of these States United? SCOTUS are corrupt, they are to be natural arbiters of Constitutnal law, and yet they let political agenda sway the vote instead of adhering to the written word, or worse falsely claim it a living document subject to the wind and current favor of the elite masters, and a New York Billionair who buys out entire elections! Just who is in charge here, who are the real leaders, and why must we suffer under the boot of socialisism where our republic is dismantled piece by piece by those unqualified to have any voice or vote!

Rant just getting started!

You Preach it Brother!

This should be called the State of Bloomberg rather than the State of Oregon...

We need to stand firm and gain even more power in the mid-terms, to do less is to lose the fight...

 

[Ura-Ki]

There HAS to be a way to stop Bloomingturd cold, and remove Bloody Kate by force! Same with the A.G. and Sheriff Mike Reese! There HAS to be something we can do, but what?!?!?!?

 

[Lindy]

Killing is a matter of will, not weapons.
You can't control the act itself by passing laws about the means employed.

Good Shooting

Lindy

 

[nammac]

There HAS to be a way to stop Bloomingturd cold, and remove Bloody Kate by force! Same with the A.G. and Sheriff Mike Reese! There HAS to be something we can do, but what?!?!?!?

They should be recalled, every last one of the Constitution Tramplers!

 

[Ura-Ki]

Brother nammac, we need to get together and get something started, and get it to stick! Rally the members here and SWFA and get this going!

 

[DuneHopper]

Yes, I 100% believe in the 2nd Amendment. I also know allot of blood was spilled preserving that right.

Some asked if I think Conservatives in A: are the Problem, yes in the same way Liberals in A: are.
If you will notice I did not put as as supporting the 2nd Amendment in Column A: and here is why, The far rights thinkers don't do anything at all. They claim to be arming up the last 70 years and never so much as use a slingshot in defense on American soil. At lease Pro gun in Column B and C are asking questions and wanting answers column A's are just loud and angry and accomplish squat. Same with the far left frothing in column A: wanting all guns confiscated, they accomplish nothing but yell and scream. Both Column A:'s Conservatives and Liberals are terror mongers. They want on one side for us to arms up, the other wants to cause chaos and remove rights and neither does anything at all. I see many a groups with nice fancy motto's, not on my watch, no compromise, from my cold dead hands. Actually I have sat hear listening to all the propaganda in this country and and no one did one single thing for 8 years. I have news for column A: conservatives, you did compromise, they did it on your watch, and yes they passed laws and pried them from your still alive hands and conservatives in Column A: stood and did nothing.

Everyone is 100% correct our Constitution was written by men, who raised a sword and Did not compromise, took the enemy down on their watch, and gave no arms away from any of their hands.
If one is willing to not on my watch, no compromise, and not from my cold dead hands then it would mean something but the millions of conservatives stood by collecting their membership dues and did nothing to stop, and the funny thing is as I read some of these post, " there is no talking to anti gunners " Now thats funny as all we have done is talk ???

God Bless America, and the Men and Women in this country. Perhaps some day the Men and Women in this country will not compromise, will take the enemy down on their watch, and give no arms away from any of their hands.

Do these things written piss you off ? Good then go back to your groups who claim they will make a difference and force them to, and don't give them one red cent until they do.
Or
You can sit down and watch B&C do it for you, guaranteed it wont be the results column A on either side would want. There are 6 groups and only two choice, stand, or sit.

But until then, back to your regular scheduled programming.

 

[Superglide]

I said it n another thread, gun owners have been compromising since 1934! We need to stand against any further infringement. If they want tougher laws, then enforce the ones they already have, make those who have failed the system that's currently in place accountable. Fix the brokens with the current systems and processes, so those who are threats to our communities have appropriate actions taken against them.
Time to hold those accountable who aided in this unspeakable tragedy. It sure as he!! Isn't the 100+ million gun owners in this country...

We have not been compromising since 1934. More like we have been submitting. A compromise would have benefits for both sides.
I did say we have too many laws. It's like the tax code. Overwhelming. I don't even know the rules if I sell my excess ammo in the classifieds here. In-state rules differ from out-of-state? Liability issues? Prohibitions? What is the problem with keeping it comprehensible? I guess lawyers need to eat, just like worms and buzzards.
I did also say fix the broken parts. We all want that. That is where the compromise is. Come together for a mutually agreed upon goal. Do not submit or settle.

 

[Superglide]

Yes, I 100% believe in the 2nd Amendment. I also know allot of blood was spilled preserving that right...........

...........Do these things written piss you off ? Good then go back to your groups who claim they will make a difference and force them to, and don't give them one red cent until they do.
Or
You can sit down and watch B&C do it for you, guaranteed it wont be the results column A on either side would want. There are 6 groups and only two choice, stand, or sit.

But until then, back to your regular scheduled programming.

I concur. Action or ideology. Your choice.

 

[DuneHopper]

Dear Moderators, I know you do not enjoy some of the post I create here, my goal as it has always been is to get people to think. I get that some people can respond and cause a topic to get shutdown based on their conduct, but shuffling my post back and forth around the forum so people wont engage ? Really?
And my posts are always well within the rules, I see many other more controversial topics on this forum however when ever I post anything that does not shed a bright light on gun owners and how they operate its either gets shut down or moved around the forum where eventually interest is lost. I have read the rules many many times. If someone could PM me and explain how the rules are not being followed it would be appreciate. I have written several times asking whats up and no responses.
@Joe Link

Thanks
DH

 

[Joe Link]

Dear Moderators, I know you do not enjoy some of the post I create here, my goal as it has always been is to get people to think. I get that some people can respond and cause a topic to get shutdown based on their conduct, but shuffling my post back and forth around the forum so people wont engage ? Really?
And my posts are always well within the rules, I see many other more controversial topics on this forum however when ever I post anything that does not shed a bright light on gun owners and how they operate its either gets shut down or moved around the forum where eventually interest is lost. I have read the rules many many times. If someone could PM me and explain how the rules are not being followed it would be appreciate. I have written several times asking whats up and no responses.
@Joe Link

Thanks
DH

I'll take a look at this as soon as I get a chance

 

[EPS]

Most everyone.....at least those who went to school in America. Well, they probably learned this.........

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Where does it say?

"It is reserved to the Congress to limit this right, if the Congress doesn't approve of what new technology might bring in the future."

But. It does say.....

".....shall not be infringed."

Was it a failure of the schools to teach the youth of America, that it means what it says?

Oh rrrright.....some were thought that the militia was the National Guard. And, the 2nd A was actually a collective right and not an individual's right.

Aloha, Mark

I can pretty much garantee you the kids in school are not taught the 2A they would probably get kicked out of school for saying it

 

[sdlsaginaw]

The problem is, unless you're at one of the endpoints you have to be willing to give something up.

If you're toward the right, you're willing to give up some gun rights.

If you're toward the left, the only thing you can give up is how far you want to go.

So every time at the bargaining table the middle ground is "give up a few gun rights".

 

[ma96782]

I can pretty much garantee you the kids in school are not taught the 2A they would probably get kicked out of school for saying it

BUT, But, but.......the 2nd Amendment was covered in school.......



Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

This is what the kids should have been thought.



Aloha, Mark

 

[Lindy]

Notable quotes by US founding fathers et al.
Quotes that can establish that there was good reason why the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution was written the way it was, & the thoughts of some of the founding fathers of the USA/America on why it was included and a part of the US Bill of Rights.

---------------------------------

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…" – George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed." – Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy." – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." – Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them." – George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." – George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." – Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of." – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." – James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"…the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone…" – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." – Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." – Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." – St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves." – Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." – Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." – Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty …. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." – Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion." – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair." – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist." – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." – Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789