Street Robberies and you - The Basics

[Kevatc]

Again, you didn't read what I wrote. I never said they came into my yard. They were on the sidewalk doing their crap and I went out to them and told them to shove off, which I have every flippin' right to do. I'm not required to call the cops in order to call out someone for "over the top" behavior, nor am I legally obliged to avoid/flee that sort of confrontation. Where they REALLY screwed up was threatening me and taking "the posture" to follow through with it.

1.
They communicated the intent verbally, then physically postured for it.

2.
They had the means (between the two of them) to inflict serious bodily harm (at least try, because I can friggin' throw down and have an exceptional pain threshhold)3.
They had the opportunity.

Those are the three required legal criteria to justify using deadly force in Oregon for the police and citizens alike. Talkin' bubblegume is not justifiable, but communicating a threat and taking the posture under those circumstances IS justifiable... Me and the wife are the Neighborhood Crime Watch Captains for our area, and this is MY "barrio". I have the stones, the training, and the means to keep it that way and don't need permission from the cops when its called for...

BTW- I know half the Woodburn cops by their first names and BBQ with half of those I know, so I'm good to go.

Well bully for you Stomper you Neighborhood Crime Captain. Really glad you can "throw down" and have an exceptional pain threshold. What color is the cape you're wearing as this kind of Super Hero?

Also, super duper happy you know half the Woodburn cops by name. Think any of those half might sit on your jury? Think any of them might share a good pulled pork sandwich with you while the jury is deliberating?

The bottom line is that this incident is clear in your mind and you might possibly be totally justified in drawing your gun. However, what your are typing out in terms of the story keeps getting added to.

 

[tonz]

Thank you for the post C75, excellent advice and guidance for "those who are not"

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A rukus in front of your house justified you pointing a gun at them? Why not call the cops instead? Was there a threat from them to cause you to do what you did or were they just being loud obnoxious d-bags?

The mere fact that they outnumbered him legally justifies an equalizer, even if they had no weapons

 

[Kevatc]

The mere fact that they outnumbered him legally justifies an equalizer, even if they had no weapons

I don't think the answer is as black and white as it might appear based on the story presented so far. I'm not saying you are wrong .... I'm not saying Stomper is wrong. As a person with a modicum of self defense knowledge in terms of guns if I were on a jury I would want more details on why Stomper felt the need to draw his gun. I guess we all have our different lines in the sand that idiots need to cross before we decide to point a gun at someone.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I don't think the answer is as black and white as it might appear based on the story presented so far. I'm not saying you are wrong .... I'm not saying Stomper is wrong. As a person with a modicum of self defense knowledge in terms of guns if I were on a jury I would want more details on why Stomper felt the need to draw his gun. I guess we all have our different lines in the sand that idiots need to cross before we decide to point a gun at someone.

IF they were threatening him as he intimates, that is enough IMO.. and note he drew but did not shoot.. now if at that point they rushed him a reasonable man would believe his life or body was in grave danger and a shoot would be justified. I have drawn before in just such circumstances under verbal threats by rape packs, (Threatening ladies under my protection) and would do so again in a heartbeat. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback such situations but I have been there and you KNOW that they are crazy and intent on doing harm (or not)

 

[Kevatc]

IF they were threatening him as he intimates, that is enough IMO.. and note he drew but did not shoot.. now if at that point they rushed him a reasonable man would believe his life or body was in grave danger and a shoot would be justified. I have drawn before in just such circumstances under verbal threats by rape packs, (Threatening ladies under my protection) and would do so again in a heartbeat. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback such situations but I have been there and you KNOW that they are crazy and intent on doing harm (or not)

Good points. However, I believe Stomper said they were on opposite sides of a fence. Would you be confident that a jury would believe a person felt they were in grave danger just because he was being cussed out by some idiots on the far side of a fence?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Good points. However, I believe Stomper said they were on opposite sides of a fence. Would you be confident that a jury would believe a person felt they were in grave danger just because he was being cussed out by some idiots on the far side of a fence?

Depends. In my youth when I was lighter I could climb a 12 foot cyclone fence in seconds and be on you. Youth as in early 20s and weighing 170 or so

 

[Stomper]

Good points. However, I believe Stomper said they were on opposite sides of a fence. Would you be confident that a jury would believe a person felt they were in grave danger just because he was being cussed out by some idiots on the far side of a fence?

Wow, you are just full of typical snarky leftist schmuck shiester responses, huh? I don't wear a cape, and I have not "added" anthing to the event, but I also don't participate in the social pussification of our country, nor do I shy away from publicly calling out and shaming bad behavior. The problem with people of your "bent" is that you think everyone is stupid... Except for yourself, of course.

AGAIN... you apparently have not read what I wrote. I NEVER SAID ONE SINGLE TIME that I was on the opposite side of any fence when they threatened me. Your lack of comprehension skills are astounding and are a part of the reason (along with those like you) for the decline of this country. The bottom line IS... The details of the "rukus" are irrelevant, when they postured to "kick my arse" ("not just cussing me out from the far side of a fence", as you STRANGELY keep insisting on saying) they set the tone, nobody made them do it, and I put a stop to it... Period. If after all that and you still don't like it, tough.

PLEASE dear Lord, I know he gets to vote (maybe even procreate if he can keep them passed out long enough), but for all that is good, sacred, and holy... Do not let this addled mind sit on a jury, his feeble mind is too easily distracted from trying to be psuedo-smarter than everybody else!

You are a silly little man, and what you "think" is of no consequense to me... se la vie.

 

[DonovanJay]

I love guns.

 

[Stomper]

I love guns.

DITTO!!

 

[Kevatc]

Wow, you are just full of typical snarky leftist schmuck shiester responses, huh? I don't wear a cape, and I have not "added" anthing to the event, but I also don't participate in the social pussification of our country, nor do I shy away from publicly calling out and shaming bad behavior. The problem with people of your "bent" is that you think everyone is stupid... Except for yourself, of course.

AGAIN... you apparently have not read what I wrote. I NEVER SAID ONE SINGLE TIME that I was on the opposite side of any fence when they threatened me. Your lack of comprehension skills are astounding and are a part of the reason (along with those like you) for the decline of this country. The bottom line IS... The details of the "rukus" are irrelevant, when they postured to "kick my arse" ("not just cussing me out from the far side of a fence", as you STRANGELY keep insisting on saying) they set the tone, nobody made them do it, and I put a stop to it... Period. If after all that and you still don't like it, tough.

PLEASE dear Lord, I know he gets to vote (maybe even procreate if he can keep them passed out long enough), but for all that is good, sacred, and holy... Do not let this addled mind sit on a jury, his feeble mind is too easily distracted from trying to be psuedo-smarter than everybody else!

You are a silly little man, and what you "think" is of no consequense to me... se la vie.

So I am a "snarky leftist schmuck shiester" because you can't remember your own stroy from one minute to the next? I have quoted all your posts below in their entirety so you can see that with each one of your posts you kept adding to the story.

A while back I drew my Glock on a couple Latino-gangsta-A-hats that were causing a big rukus in front of my house. I told them to shove off and they said, (in a nutshell) "F-you, we'll kick your 'arse'"... to which I replied, (in a nutshell) "thank you for threatening me, now I can legally shoot your arses." I let them hang there on the sidewalk looking into that .45ACP barrel for 5-10 seconds watching them turn pale... then I motioned for them to split, and let 'em run off.

If there had been a sudden motion or even a GLINT of a weapon, I would have slotted them both on the spot... and they both had no doubt I would have done it.


Never have seen them again (anywhere), and never a rukus around here since.


My wife was gobsmacked...

No mention of kicking your gate in or throwing rocks at your dog yet. BUT WAIT! If you keep reading you'll get version B of the story for absolutely no additional charge.

First off you obviously didn't properly read what I wrote, but I'll elucidate you since you're missing it.

The "rukus" was them loudly ranting and energetically raving over something in rapid-fire jiberish in spanish which led to exciting my white-lab into barking at them, which they apparently thought gave them the right to start full-on kicking in my double-gates leading into my yard and throwing rocks at my dog... which of course I came out on the sidewalk and told them in no uncertain terms to knock it off, which in turn they replied with what I already posted, which in turn led me to skin my Glock AFTER they made verbal threats and moved in a menacing manner.

You can't brandish a weapon on someone because they are a loud D-bag and talking sheit (my gun would never be in the holster if you could), but you sure as hell can when two dopes wearing baggy pants, tee-shirts and backwards hats threaten to kick your azz and take an agressive posture when you confront them for wrong behavior.

I had every right to confront them, they had no right to threaten and attempt to intimidate me, and I simply countered their threat with a higher threat. Nobody put a gun to their head to make them behave and say the things they did, but putting one in their face straightened them out lickety-split.

I don't have "Wyatt Erp syndrome" by any means (I already carry "the burden" from military actions in my Army days), but I sure as hell have no problem calling out jerk-wads when they cross my path. I have never seen those two around here again (or around town), hopefully they had a "Come to Jesus moment" and changed their ways, maybe I saved their lives in the long run.... I'm OK with that.

Never said you couldn't confront them or that you even wrong for doing so. Based on your first post I didn't see the reason for "skinning your Glock". In your second post yu gave more reasons for doing what you did. But even you can read that you included some details from your first to second post.

Again, you didn't read what I wrote. I never said they came into my yard. They were on the sidewalk doing their crap and I went out to them and told them to shove off, which I have every flippin' right to do. I'm not required to call the cops in order to call out someone for "over the top" behavior, nor am I legally obliged to avoid/flee that sort of confrontation. Where they REALLY screwed up was threatening me and taking "the posture" to follow through with it.

1.
They communicated the intent verbally, then physically postured for it.

2.
They had the means (between the two of them) to inflict serious bodily harm (at least try, because I can friggin' throw down and have an exceptional pain threshhold)

3.
They had the opportunity.

Those are the three required legal criteria to justify using deadly force in Oregon for the police and citizens alike. Talkin' bubblegume is not justifiable, but communicating a threat and taking the posture under those circumstances IS justifiable... Me and the wife are the Neighborhood Crime Watch Captains for our area, and this is MY "barrio". I have the stones, the training, and the means to keep it that way and don't need permission from the cops when its called for...

BTW- I know half the Woodburn cops by their first names and BBQ with half of those I know, so I'm good to go.

And I didn't say they did come into your yard either.

Your changing story and attitude would not serve you very well had things gone badly. Yes, you would've been justified to defend yourself with whatever means were available to you had they come over the fence at you. You might also have found yourself sitting in a defendant's chair for having "skinned that Glock" and accidentally shot them on the far side of the fence.

Bottom line is this is your story (that keeps getting added to) and I know you're gonna stick to it so bully for you. I'm inclined to think you probably just scared off two boy scouts with your Red Rider BB gun.

 

[Stomper]

LOL @ Red Rider BB gun!!

 

[Kevatc]

LOL @ Red Rider BB gun!!

That's what you're focusing on??? Oye.

 

[Stomper]

Its the "interweb", take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Kevatc]

Its the "interweb", take it with a grain of salt.

You're quite a piece of work. Calling me names and telling me I have no reading comprehension. Be a man and just say "opps, I didn't give the full story up front and that was misleading on my part." Then you can rejoin the man party here on NWF.

 

[Riot]

You're quite a piece of work. Calling me names and telling me I have no reading comprehension. Be a man and just say "opps, I didn't give the full story up front and that was misleading on my part." Then you can rejoin the man party here on NWF.

Got to let it go, man. No sense in getting all worked up for something someone posted on the internet.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

 

[Stomper]

LOL!

 

[Stomper]

You're quite a piece of work. Calling me names and telling me I have no reading comprehension. Be a man and just say "opps, I didn't give the full story up front and that was misleading on my part." Then you can rejoin the man party here on NWF.

Join an internet "man party"? Dude, you must go through a pile of tissues and have sticky gym socks.

 

[thereddog]

Civilian 75, thanks for putting this up.

It was well written and helped me sort out a few things I'd been thinking on too.