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Street Robberies and you - The Basics

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by civilian75, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    I have shamelessly stolen this post from Ar15.com, by BurnedOutLEO, because it is so worth it!

    Street robberies and you - The Basics - AR15.COM
     
    Burt Gummer, Galant, Bob D and 35 others like this.
  2. CharonPDX

    CharonPDX Portland, OR Active Member

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    The best part of that post is "motherbubblegumers". :-D

    Very informative and thought provoking.
     
  3. DinhRose

    DinhRose Austin, Texas (Ex-Pat of SE PDX) Active Member

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    Drawing or not I've always thought it best to put distance and cover between the other person and myself. I'll defend my life but I would avoid a gun fight unless there is no other choice. It really is scary to think what would happen in these situations but that's why you train and practice. A steady hand and being familiar with your weapon will save your life and hopefully avoid these sort of scenerios.
     
  4. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    thanks for posting very good read.
     
  5. CZ Fan

    CZ Fan Oregon Member

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    Yes good read.
     
  6. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    This was a great read. I think that the person who wrote this is correct. Most of the time, the belief on the part of the bad guy that you might have a gun is enough to make them choose someone else.
     
    Burt Gummer and (deleted member) like this.
  7. jimwsea

    jimwsea Vancouver, Washington state Active Member

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    Reminds me of news reports first showing the details of a violent murder in the burbs, then interviewing locals who say "nothing ever happens here"'.

    Great info.
     
  8. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting this. One of the best posts I've read here.
     
  9. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Except that there are three m's in motherbubblegummers.
     
  10. redmud

    redmud Colombia river Active Member

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    Great post, but since when do rockets need surgery. The shirt flick really does do the trick I have had it work for me in a different situation. I was sitting sitting out on my front porch enjoying a warm summer evening with a beer I was young and didn't mind living in a rough neighborhood. A kid around 11 or 12 comes running up to me screaming help I walk over to the fence and ask him whats up he says some guys are chasing him I look up the street and roughly 7 guys around my age are running up. I step out of the gate put the kid behind me and contemplate the situation as they run up I free up my shirt then reach behind my back and hook my pocket with my thumb, they scream he has a gun turn and run back the other way. I asked the kid what he did he said they were calling him names so he flipped them off and the chase started. I didn't have anything but they had no idea.:thumbup:
     
  11. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I only have a minute today but I have been there and drawn first.. they looked like Wile Coyote over the Grand Canyon and although it is possible to beat a sloppy man with a drawn gun they didn't have the sand for it
     
  12. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    I like the article...a lot. Nevertheless, what people shouldn't get stuck on is the gun. You can die from a stab wound or a baseball bat to the head just as quickly as a gunshot wound. What you need to be focused on is the threat of imminent serious bodily harm or death to yourself or another...you should only use your firearm in defense of yourself or another because no other option was viable at that moment and you had no other choice.

    To use deadly force, all three of the below requirements must be met:

    1) Ability: They must have the ability to do harm to you or another. This doesn't even have to be a weapon in the sense of an object that you may normally use to kill someone (i.e. gun or knife). It can be a flathead screwdriver, a tire iron or even someone just using their own feet (i.e. kicking) someone while they are down or a heavyweight boxer/weight lifter punching someone or even just an average joe choking someone with their bare hands. The key here is that you need the perception that they have the ability to do great harm to yourself or another.

    2) Opportunity: They must be able to use that item against you. If someone has a knife but they are outside your window of your locked house, they haven't met this standard. They must be able to reasonably use the object or method of harm against you or another person.

    3) Jeopardy: This one is, arguably, the hardest element to prove. Nevertheless, you cannot just shoot someone for holding a knife or having a gun on them. You must feel that you or another was in jeopardy from harm. This is where Ian Birk (the Seattle PD officer that shot the wood carver) came into trouble. Just because an individual has a knife or a gun doesn't mean that you can shoot them. Just because they are a big person and are arguing with someone desn't mean that you can plug a couple rounds in them either. You must have a reasonable belief that the individual(s) will harm you or another.

    Only when all three of these elements are met can you use deadly force. Note that the force doesn't necessarily have to be used on you- but I highly recommended that you only use it when it is (that way concealed pistol holders don't just shoot people trying to defend themselves).

    More on this here...

    Cornered Cat - Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy
     
    corsar66 and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If you expose a holstered gun in order to show you are armed is that menacing? Would it be menacing if you did draw your gun but kept it at your side as you tried to put distance or something between you and the badguy? I know a true badguy probably isn't going to report this but I am thinking if someone only saw part of the situation and that part was me exposing a gun.
     
  14. boxer13

    boxer13 PNW Active Member

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    Great read, and some valuable insight into the minds of stick up men. Learned a thing or two on my approach and actions.
     
  15. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    As with everything it depends on the situation. The part I like about the article is the portion about being aware. If you have been aware of the bubblegumers following you, and looking up to no good then as he sasy... 'they won't stick around to say you were 'menacing' them. Of course, in a situation like this even if I was in the right, I wouldn't stick around. It was a bad place to be, I don't want to be there any more.

    M
     
  16. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Yes you can, if they are close enough, it's in their hand and they act with any aggression. I am not a mind reader
     
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I have done it 7 times, 6 with a handgun. Bad guys don't call the cops...
     
  18. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    It's more like fixing your collar.You don't pull the shirt back to expose the gun,you just kinda fix your shirt.Fluff it a little,as to give yourself access to the gun.Loosen it up.
    Although if I'm in a bad area,I will have the gun where I don't need to pull it to shoot. A vest or light coat.
    But the awareness part is the most important. I was walking to my car,to a back lot when I saw a guy pacing me from about 50yards.As soon as I turned a little and made eye contact,he decided to go elsewhere.
    In Longview,at a hotel,a girl was running across the street ,crying.A guy walking in that mad mode about 20yds back. I was standing outside the car.I reached in and put the gun closer,then looked him in the eye. He went on his way.
    Nobody saw a gun but the movements made them have an epiphany that there was better places to be.

    I like the fact that he is willing to say some thing that other instructors won't.Like when to pull the gun and the fact that the BG won't be calling the cops on you.

    Thanks for the post
     
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  19. theficklefinger

    theficklefinger Eugene New Member

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    At the crux of this is readiness. The are ready to jump you, you should be ready to be jumped.
     
  20. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    That's why someone came up with the color code system for readiness/alertness. You should never be in condition white, the bunny-rabbit-munching-grass mode
     
    accessbob and (deleted member) like this.