Stovepipe, FTE, troubleshoot

[Yarome]

In the camp with @oremike 's posts... and you may be on the right track with a reduced spring, but you don't want to go too light or you'll have battery issues.

What I would be checking first though is the P80 rails to ensure you aren't getting any over friction on them. Using a black sharpie to "paint" them, fire a round, then checking the wear marks is a good way to check everything is running parallel and without any excessive wear on one rail or the other. Remembering to check both tops and undersides. A couple minutes with a file or sanding block might just fix ya right up.

P80's... that's an incredibly common issue, but I don't know how fresh that build is or how many rounds you have on the frame/slide combo. It may simply be a break in issue, but you can certainly fine tune the rails to assist the process. Ensure the mechanicals are in fine fettle before altering spec components would be my first option.

IE., Going with a lighter spring would help in the short term, but if it is in fact a rail mating issue then eventually the lighter spring may end up giving you issues once you're past the "break in". KWIM?


ETA: It wouldn't be at all uncommon for your slide action to be 'right on the edge'... and you're just occasionally picking up a factory target load that's just fractionally undercharged and not getting a full slide stroke(?) Like Mike said... as infrequent as the issue is, I don't really suspect an ejector or extractor issue.

 

[Koda]

Yep that does look like a good long ejector. I am not sure the weaker spring is going to help you as by the time the bolt face gets back far enough to pick up the new round the old case should be long gone. Pretty sure your problem is getting little girl wrists after popping a few too many down range. At this point I am going to need a good high speed camera if you want to convince me otherwise

If you buy a high speed camera I will invite you to my next range session.
Im going to have to force myself to shoot like a robot for the day to prove myself.

 

[Koda]

In the camp with @oremike 's posts... and you may be on the right track with a reduced spring, but you don't want to go too light or you'll have battery issues.

What I would be checking first though is the P80 rails to ensure you aren't getting any over friction on them. Using a black sharpie to "paint" them, fire a round, then checking the wear marks is a good way to check everything is running parallel and without any excessive wear on one rail or the other. Remembering to check both tops and undersides. A couple minutes with a file or sanding lock might just fix ya right up.

P80's... that's an incredibly common issue, but I don't know how fresh that build is or how many rounds you have on the frame/slide combo. It may simply be a break in issue, but you can certainly fine tune the rails to assist the process.

Going with a lighter spring would help in the short term, but if it is in fact a rail mating issue then eventually, the lighter spring may end up giving you issues once you're past the "break in". KWIM?

I have a Wolff spring kit for this just in case, I might try the 17lb but it looks like I might need to evaluate my shooting grip and stance. The P80s use a traditional 1911 grip angle, so this makes me wonder now if thats why Glock went with a steeper grip angle. Anyways.
This is my very first build and its taken me a long time to dial in (I used to have FTF issues... and have well over 500rds thru it). I will double check the rail modules, but those are level, parallel, sit right and are polished smooth as silk, the action racks so easy.

 

[lucusloc]

If you buy a high speed camera I will invite you to my next range session.
Im going to have to force myself to shoot like a robot for the day to prove myself.

We all get lazy after a long sting of shooting. Most of us just recognize that and don't post all the evidence needed to prove it for our buddies to see

But man I would love a good high speed camera. Too bad even a decent entry level one runs more than a grand. You can kinda get away with just upping your frame rate on a consumer camera, but they really top out at 4 to 8x speed, which is not a lot compared to what actual high speed cameras do. Really all that is good for is highlighting a good wipe-out, not running diagnostics on high speed machinery.

 

[lucusloc]

I have a Wolff spring kit for this just in case, I might try the 17lb but it looks like I might need to evaluate my shooting grip and stance. The P80s use a traditional 1911 grip angle, so this makes me wonder now if thats why Glock went with a steeper grip angle. Anyways.
This is my very first build and its taken me a long time to dial in (I used to have FTF issues... and have well over 500rds thru it). I will double check the rail modules, but those are level, parallel, sit right and are polished smooth as silk, the action racks so easy.

Figuring out first builds is super fun. You do learn a lot by doing it.

 

[Yarome]

I have a Wolff spring kit for this just in case, I might try the 17lb but it looks like I might need to evaluate my shooting grip and stance. The P80s use a traditional 1911 grip angle, so this makes me wonder now if thats why Glock went with a steeper grip angle. Anyways.
This is my very first build and its taken me a long time to dial in (I used to have FTF issues... and have well over 500rds thru it). I will double check the rail modules, but those are level, parallel, sit right and are polished smooth as silk, the action racks so easy.

Quite likely. It can't hurt and it's quick and easy to check them again though to ensure they haven't "settled in" out of alignment... and also check the center flat of the locking block to ensure you're not getting any contact/drag there.

That just ensures you're treating the actual problem vs. compensating with a symptom fix.

 

[Koda]

You can kinda get away with just upping your frame rate on a consumer camera, but they really top out at 4 to 8x speed, which is not a lot compared to what actual high speed cameras do. Really all that is good for is highlighting a good wipe-out, not running diagnostics on high speed machinery.

If you can get 4 to 8x your hired, it may not diagnose machinery but it would show shooter form like limpwristing...

Figuring out first builds is super fun. You do learn a lot by doing it.

Ive learned a ton from this build. So much my second one ran flawless on its maiden voyage. But this first one I thought I had it all worked out but then got a random stovepipe and testing showed it random... so maybe its me limpwristing, I will have to shoot like a robot day to find out but I still think the added weight of the RMR could be the issue too. The slide has no cutouts for that... as Im not fond of slide cutouts, skeptical but it makes sense weight wise.

 

[oremike]

You can tell if you are limp wristing if the gun is bucking as in using you wrist as a hinge point rather than absorbing the recoil with your total body. Here is some speed shooting, don't worry about how fast they are they are world class shooters. Watch how little the muzzle moves and where the recoil energy goes in their bodies. https://www.google.com/search?clien...ate=ive&vld=cid:2bace683,vid:NR1uH1Ro4ZA,st:0

 

[FATAL125]

 

[Koda]

You can tell if you are limp wristing if the gun is bucking as in using you wrist as a hinge point rather than absorbing the recoil with your total body. Here is some speed shooting, don't worry about how fast they are they are world class shooters. Watch how little the muzzle moves and where the recoil energy goes in their bodies. https://www.google.com/search?clien...ate=ive&vld=cid:2bace683,vid:NR1uH1Ro4ZA,st:0

No one here is going to believe me if I claim I shoot like that. I dont shoot that fast but my muzzle isnt flipping up. My grip is high into the beavertail and arm extended and bore axis in line with arm.

 

[OPSCWO]

Most often caused by an ill-fitted extractor. It should hold a loaded round firm and be able to shake gently to test hold. Brownells sells a tool to bend the extractor back in place.

 

[Yarome]

Ive learned a ton from this build. So much my second one ran flawless on its maiden voyage

Ya got lucky on the 2nd one. It happens.

You learn a lot more from the glitches than the successes. Every time you think you've got them completely figured out, it's not uncommon for a completely new issue to rear it's head. They really are a lot of fun, highly educational and developing a deep understanding of the basic principles and mechanical interactions does cross over, to an extent, into other platforms as well.

 

[dmack]

1 in 75 isn't much, but Glock did have a problem with their early railed guns not liking to cycle if you had a light mounted to them. Just a random thought.

 

[DirectDrive]

These are factory new Remington UMC 115gn 9mm FMJ.
The current recoil spring is the recommended 18lb for this size gun but I have a Wolff spring kit and will try a 17 and 16lb reduced power recoil spring to account for the RMR weight.

I also wonder if using heavier bullets would eliminate the issue, would 124 or 147gn 9mm produce more consistent recoil?

I would not shoot 115's with that set up.
It's burdened with an optic and even the WML can have an effect on cycling.
Betcha if you stuck with full power 124's you would have no problems.

124 NATO if you can find it is great break-in ammo or I have found that Fiocchi is an honest 124 loading.

 

[Koda]

I would not shoot 115's with that set up.
It's burdened with an optic and even the WML can have an effect on cycling.
Betcha if you stuck with full power 124's you would have no problems.

124 NATO if you can find it is great break-in ammo or I have found that Fiocchi is an honest 124 loading.

Ive often wondered about optic weight and even WML weight but Ive never found any conclusion on the subject. Its interesting with so many people sending their slides out to get machined these days, might be in for an expensive surprise on their otherwise old reliable.

Anyways, i think I will buy a case of 124gn to see what happens. I normally buy 115 cause its widely available and cheapest. I will also try a lighter recoil spring.
I wish there was more "official " guidance found on DIY builds considering the huge market it has. It would be good to know what recoil spring rates to use with total slide weights, youd think there would be a simple chart out there.

 

[DirectDrive]

Ive often wondered about optic weight and even WML weight but Ive never found any conclusion on the subject. Its interesting with so many people sending their slides out to get machined these days, might be in for an expensive surprise on their otherwise old reliable.

Anyways, i think I will buy a case of 124gn to see what happens. I normally buy 115 cause its widely available and cheapest. I will also try a lighter recoil spring.
I wish there was more "official " guidance found on DIY builds considering the huge market it has. It would be good to know what recoil spring rates to use with total slide weights, youd think there would be a simple chart out there.

Buy a couple of boxes of this and that.
Buy a case when you are sure of the brand.

I don't know what kind of pistol you have, but if it's easy to change out recoil springs, then it's a trial and error thing with different weight springs until you get the slide action you want.

 

[DirectDrive]

Nic Taylor does a nice job showing how he tunes his 2011.
Taylor Tactical (Ebay) has some great spring kits.
I like the color-coding and the price.

View: https://youtu.be/xUecHstU4QQ?feature=shared

 

[Xaevian]

I would not shoot 115's with that set up.
It's burdened with an optic and even the WML can have an effect on cycling.
Betcha if you stuck with full power 124's you would have no problems.

124 NATO if you can find it is great break-in ammo or I have found that Fiocchi is an honest 124 loading.

Was about to say the same thing.

 

[Koda]

Followup...

Time moves slow sometimes, but I finally got back to this. Today I fired 195 rounds of 115gn FMJ and not one single malfunction. Short version it was the extractor.

Long version, Several months ago I took @lucusloc 's tip and filmed myself shooting it, it was there the problem revealed itself when I played back on a PC. Brass was ejecting in several directions randomly, some very weakly barely making it out of the gun, some looked normal, some ejecting back almost in my face (which should have been a clue without video proof). So I checked my RMR and sure enough I'm seeing dings on the paint around the edge of the optic. I don't have slo-mo tech but reviewing the video footage frame by frame it does appear many cases are hitting the optic potentially falling back into the chamber (see pic in first post). Anyways, really bad extraction issues.
Time moves slow, hunting season arrived and I had other things in the way, but in between then and now I purchased a Glock OEM extractor, plunger, bearing, and extractor spring. Then it sat until today when I finally got a chance to go plinking. 195 rounds and not only zero malfunctions but all the brass ejected to the side in the same direction. I'm disappointed in the dings in the paint on the expensive RMR.


pic of brass flying towards my face (not today obviously)

T

 

[lucusloc]

Followup...

Time moves slow sometimes, but I finally got back to this. Today I fired 195 rounds of 115gn FMJ and not one single malfunction. Short version it was the extractor.

Long version, Several months ago I took @lucusloc 's tip and filmed myself shooting it, it was there the problem revealed itself when I played back on a PC. Brass was ejecting in several directions randomly, some very weakly barely making it out of the gun, some looked normal, some ejecting back almost in my face (which should have been a clue without video proof). So I checked my RMR and sure enough I'm seeing dings on the paint around the edge of the optic. I don't have slo-mo tech but reviewing the video footage frame by frame it does appear many cases are hitting the optic potentially falling back into the chamber (see pic in first post). Anyways, really bad extraction issues.
Time moves slow, hunting season arrived and I had other things in the way, but in between then and now I purchased a Glock OEM extractor, plunger, bearing, and extractor spring. Then it sat until today when I finally got a chance to go plinking. 195 rounds and not only zero malfunctions but all the brass ejected to the side in the same direction. I'm disappointed in the dings in the paint on the expensive RMR.


pic of brass flying towards my face (not today obviously)
View attachment 2007098
T

A likely story. I note you did not post the video so we could revel in all the limp wristing glory

But good that you got it sorted. I am mildly surprised that the extractor was behaving that way even though it seemed to hold the cartridge decently well on the static testing, but a worn out edge or funky geometry could easily explain it. And the optic being a contributing factor makes sense too.

I will have to youse your success as motivation to sort out some known issues in a few of my guns. I think I know what a few of the problems are, but I actually have to go and test it to be sure. We will see what happens after the holidays.