Stopping Power

[Blitzkrieg]

Quote Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
My friends dad was a 101 Airborn Ranger in Vietnam War and did some serious work...2 tours in jungle. He has medals and all that...even the key to some city in california for stopping a robbery attempt when he got back. He told us that the .45 gets it done and he knows from experience. He said before that they were having to shoot VC with their 9mm more than 5 a piece to put them down sometimes. and when they went to .45 it was a 1 shot situation. Only person I know with experience actually shooting human targets and he carries a GI 1911 .45 everyday. I wouldn't downplay the power of a .45, I here it works great




Must have been one he took with him cause they didn't change to the Beretta till after Viet Nam.GIs had 1911s over there.

But that was the very reason the 1911 was developed.The 38s were failing the Army terribly and they needed some more power.

FMJ or .38 lead round nose bullet war stories do not translate to modern civilian hollowpoints, which have totally altered the stopping power/caliber debate

 

[MA Duce]

Quote Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
My friends dad was a 101 Airborn Ranger in Vietnam War and did some serious work...2 tours in jungle. He has medals and all that...even the key to some city in california for stopping a robbery attempt when he got back. He told us that the .45 gets it done and he knows from experience. He said before that they were having to shoot VC with their 9mm more than 5 a piece to put them down sometimes. and when they went to .45 it was a 1 shot situation. Only person I know with experience actually shooting human targets and he carries a GI 1911 .45 everyday. I wouldn't downplay the power of a .45, I here it works great




Must have been one he took with him cause they didn't change to the Beretta till after Viet Nam.GIs had 1911s over there.

But that was the very reason the 1911 was developed.The 38s were failing the Army terribly and they needed some more power.

Yeah that was my point. We always carried a sidearm on boardings in addition to a long gun. Sometimes crawling over the cargo in the hold of a sampan the 1911A1 was the only friend you had.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Straight up. And sorry, modern hollow points do not include Silver Tips, Hydro-Shoks or Black Talons, they were it in their day and a step in the right direction to stuff like DPX and Bonded Gold Dot.

Pistol calibers still suck.

Pistols are a way to fight your way back to your long gun

 

[MA Duce]

There can be no doubt that pistol ammunition is inferior to a rifle or shotgun.....but when I stuff my .416 down the leg of my pants it makes me walk funny and it is a real bugger to draw quickly.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

There can be no doubt that pistol ammunition is inferior to a rifle or shotgun.....but when I stuff my .416 down the leg of my pants it makes me walk funny and it is a real bugger to draw quickly.

That's why you retreat to your trunk or truck lock box if you can. I use a slightly tricked out mini 14. Learning to use cover and concealment has saved a lot of people in a fight as well. Just look at those videos I posted..

 

[MA Duce]

That's why you retreat to your trunk or truck lock box if you can. I use a slightly tricked out mini 14. Learning to use cover and concealment has saved a lot of people in a fight as well. Just look at those videos I posted..

I hope to never again be in a lead-trading contest. All my experience was on rocking boats and usually over ranges of 15ft or less. On a boat retreat was not an option, and cover was non-existant

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I hope to never again be in a lead-trading contest. All my experience was on rocking boats and usually over ranges of 15ft or less. On a boat retreat was not an option, and cover was non-existant

Just more proof that one size or plan does not fit all

 

[mjbskwim]

You've shared this personal fantasy with us before.. while you hide up there in Sequim.

HIDE? How about smart enough to know when to fold?
I had a murderer walk in front of my house,maybe 1/2 hour after she had cleaned herself up after shooting her husband that was in a wheel chair,in the back of the head.

Hiding?

I had a 17yo kill a 16yo 20 yards from my front door in the Manitou Park area of south Tacoma
I lived 40 yards from the bar that 4 people were shot in. Yes,handgun range from my RV.

I'm not hiding you over inflated dumbass,I was smart enough to get the bubblegum away from you people that like to kill each other.
Just because you were confronted by some rape squad,you are an expert?
Sounds like you were stupid enough to stay in a place that put your family in harms way.

I wouldn't do that just so I could say "I don't/won't back down to ANY man"
All pride will do is get me killed.

Hiding?

How about making the right life choices? How about going somewhere where I DO NOT have to confront some drug/alcohol induced bubblegum head on a daily basis?

Hiding? No I made a smart choice to get the bubblegum out of the jungle

Now you go ahead and be a real man and stay down there and not back down to any man and take the bullets I'm hiding from.

Ban me if you want,but you can go fornicate yourself and your "hiding" Bullbubblegum

Move out of the problem areas and take control of you life.You are letting others have control of you life by living in fear of them.

Good day SIR

 

[DOA]

Thank you, for my "pistol whip" clarification. I knew someone would help me with the correct terminology.

I knew then and there that being unarmed in your own home is not an option. My father- military, grandfather- miltary, uncles miltary and all had firearms. I'm still PO'ed my cousin took my Thompson my grandpa had from the Korean war, I was named after him and favored by him. And I was dumb enough to think nothing would ever happen to me in the middle of nowhere. My LEO family suggested the obvious carry protection. Enough ride-along trips with him opened my eye even wider.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

HIDE? How about smart enough to know when to fold?
I had a murderer walk in front of my house,maybe 1/2 hour after she had cleaned herself up after shooting her husband that was in a wheel chair,in the back of the head.

Hiding?

I had a 17yo kill a 16yo 20 yards from my front door in the Manitou Park area of south Tacoma
I lived 40 yards from the bar that 4 people were shot in. Yes,handgun range from my RV.

I'm not hiding you over inflated dumbass,I was smart enough to get the bubblegum away from you people that like to kill each other.
Just because you were confronted by some rape squad,you are an expert?
Sounds like you were stupid enough to stay in a place that put your family in harms way.

I wouldn't do that just so I could say "I don't/won't back down to ANY man"
All pride will do is get me killed.

Hiding?

How about making the right life choices? How about going somewhere where I DO NOT have to confront some drug/alcohol induced bubblegum head on a daily basis?

Hiding? No I made a smart choice to get the bubblegum out of the jungle

Now you go ahead and be a real man and stay down there and not back down to any man and take the bullets I'm hiding from.

Ban me if you want,but you can go fornicate yourself and your "hiding" Bullbubblegum

Move out of the problem areas and take control of you life.You are letting others have control of you life by living in fear of them.

Good day SIR

You are hiding from and running from the reality of a dying Western civilization (to the last place you can run to, there is no where left for you) that will catch up to you, eventually. I call this cowardice. I am through running and I will stand my ground

I do not want to "ban" you from anything, I would wish for you to look in the mirror and wake the he-double hockey sticks up and smell the coffee

 

[mjbskwim]

You are hiding from and running from the reality of a dying Western civilization (to the last place you can run to, there is no where left for you) that will catch up to you, eventually. I call this cowardice. I am through running and I will stand my ground

I do not want to "ban" you from anything, I would wish for you to look in the mirror and wake the he-double hockey sticks up and smell the coffee

You have to be the biggest *** I have ever run across on a forum.
And more full of BS than any ten people I have ever met anywhere.

And you say all this from the biggest HIPPY community in the state

AAAhahahahahahaha
Watch out for the that's gunna hit you with that bong!!!

 

[MA Duce]

Titz:
Originally Posted by MA Duce
There can be no doubt that pistol ammunition is inferior to a rifle or shotgun.....but when I stuff my .416 down the leg of my pants it makes me walk funny and it is a real bugger to draw quickly.
So we are back to handgun with it's inferior capability. Give me as many rounds as possible, I'll make up for it by throw more inferior capability on target, that is why 9mm is a clear choice to me. Handgun stopping power is an oxymoron

I was making the point that pistols are the only realistic self protection alternative in most cases. My XD packs 15 .45ACP rounds....If I can't get it done with those and my reloads, maybe my time has come.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You have to be the biggest *** I have ever run across on a forum.
And more full of BS than any ten people I have ever met anywhere.

And you say all this from the biggest HIPPY community in the state

AAAhahahahahahaha
Watch out for the that's gunna hit you with that bong!!!

Happy to be of service

 

[kenno]

It all comes down to bullet placement: A 2nd LT in the 82nd AB survived a hit to the arm from a chicom 51 cal., he lost an arm, instantly, but he survived.
25 ACP hits the arm of a fat woman in a bar follows the bone to the chest and lodges in the heart, woman drops dead.
Bullet placement

 

[Riot]

My XD packs 15 .45ACP rounds....If I can't get it done with those and my reloads, maybe my time has come.

How can you get 15 rounds of .45 ACP in a gun that holds 13 +1?

 

[mjbskwim]

Maybe don't use the reloads though.
heard tell some law problems with home brews.

 

[coop44]

Maybe don't use the reloads though.
heard tell some law problems with home brews.

Along with modified/tricked out guns, lawyers love to hear you modified your gun. "so, you modified your gun for the explicit purpose of making it easier for you to kill the deceased, is that correct?" "so you were planning on using it to kill some one?"

I have actually heard this in a courtroom (paraphrased). The verdict, manslaughter.


I only carry box stock weapons. With factory ball ammo.

 

[RallySoob]

He must of been in military well before vietnam then...I duno for sure. But he said they switched to 45 from 9mm because it wasn't keeping the tango's down. I didn't ask any questions, I just assumed he was referring to his veitnam experiences specificaly. The guy has seen things I never want to see. You don't feel right asking the specifics. He's a trooper too, he has the most triple heart bypasses ever done on a living person at Salem hospital, I can't remember the count...I wanna say 7

anyway, I think you guys are right about the new HP bullets being more effective than ever before. I've devasted some animals with a 22 mag hp bullet several times...

as far as the XD 45 mags they make all sorts of extensions, biggest one I know of is 18+1

 

[DieselScout]

Maybe don't use the reloads though.
heard tell some law problems with home brews.

Along with modified/tricked out guns, lawyers love to hear you modified your gun. "so, you modified your gun for the explicit purpose of making it easier for you to kill the deceased, is that correct?" "so you were planning on using it to kill some one?"

I have actually heard this in a courtroom (paraphrased). The verdict, manslaughter.


I only carry box stock weapons. With factory ball ammo.

So is there any case history to back up either of these claims? Where was someone sent to jail for using hand loads or a modified trigger when they should have been set free. Either way, your own defense should be competent enough to dismiss either of these arguments, and if they are not they should be dismissed and better legal counsel sought.


It does beg the question, what about night sights? Clearly you have no other reason too shoot in the dark, other then to kill someone? And all those hour you spent in the woods or at a range perfecting your deadly skills? God forbid you have any professional training, I mean, that pretty much makes you into an assassin!! See, I can play "what if" too.

 

[mjbskwim]

So is there any case history to back up either of these claims? Where was someone sent to jail for using hand loads or a modified trigger when they should have been set free. Either way, your own defense should be competent enough to dismiss either of these arguments, and if they are not they should be dismissed and better legal counsel sought.


It does beg the question, what about night sights? Clearly you have no other reason too shoot in the dark, other then to kill someone? And all those hour you spent in the woods or at a range perfecting your deadly skills? God forbid you have any professional training, I mean, that pretty much makes you into an assassin!! See, I can play "what if" too.

Use whatever you want to use and deal with the outcome.

Why fight this crap? I have read many places about problems with reloads.Just a heads up.If you don't give a damn then carry your reloads and shut up

Then you can play "what if?" with bubba all you want.

This is the problem with these type forums,always someone who would rather fight anything and everything than just take a post with a grain of salt and leave it at that.
I ,personally can't understand it.I mean,if I am shooting at someone,I realize that I may kill them.I am shooting at that person to stop a threat,and yes,I want to stop the threat as fast as possible.How would using a different round make it better or worse? A wad cutter will kill someone.A 22 short,subsonic will too.
Is the hit man that used the 22 subsonic less guilty of killing someone than me if I use a reload that has more than stock energy so the fight is over faster?
The guy is dead either way...

The point was ,people other than gun people can construe reloads,night sights,lasers,holo sights,ANYting they wish as something you used to KILL,not stop a threat.

Remember the Black Talons? OMG!!! They make the receiver bleed more and could kill them faster!! Hmmm,is that bad or good?

Still the courts found them excessive

Now what you should have done,there diesel boy,instead of argueing,is taken it with a grain of salt and taken it for what it was worth.
A fellow gun owner stating what he had read about how a liberal jury MAY rule against you if you decide to use your own loads.And decide for yourself if you care.

Again,why does everyone have to try to start a fight on here? Is this a junior high site?