Stopping Power

[DOA]

I knew I overlooked something. I guess even if the data is 'old', many of the calibers have been around for awhile, ie. .45/9mm etc. I'm not in any particular camp, but I was just trying to share something I came across for anyone who was interested. This thread has generated additional information that is helpful, that I think serves anyone looking for a little more info. thank you everyone.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A few interesting links about real world shootouts.. and "stopping power"

Lead and diamonds: the Richmond jewelry store shootout - The Ayoob Files | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET

Top 10 Most Audacious Shootouts in US History

 

[2506]

Audacious is a completely under-utilized word.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

^^^Note the round counts

Yet some folks think they are sufficiently armed with a tiny .380 or .38 snub with one or even no reload. I will not walk out the door even to my mailbox without at least 40-50 rds of 9MM/40/45 ready to rock

 

[rpatton]

I will not walk out the door even to my mailbox without at least 40-50 rds of 9MM/40/45 ready to rock

Damn... dude... you should get a PO Box at the post office if its that dangerous to check your mail box.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Damn... dude... you should get a PO Box at the post office if its that dangerous to check your mail box.

This is the mindset a seasoned warrior avoids.. there is nowhere on this rotating rock that is guaranteed safe and I will not open my door without being well armed

 

[rpatton]

there is nowhere on this rotating rock that is guaranteed safe

Sure, I get that it's not "safe" anywhere, I carry an extra box (50 rounds), full magazine and one in the chamber when I leave the house but ... to check the mail... In the words of Acccchhhhmed the dead terrorist "Holy Crap!!!"

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Sure, I get that it's not "safe" anywhere, I carry an extra box (50 rounds), full magazine and one in the chamber when I leave the house but ... to check the mail... In the words of Acccchhhhmed the dead terrorist "Holy Crap!!!"

It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

 

[MA Duce]

Shot placement is the key.

I'd say spend more time training yourself then thinking about what caliber I should carry.

A .22 hollow point between the eyes would work every time. If two in the chest with my .45 doesn't at least straighten up the bad guy, I'll assume he's got a vest and put the next one in the face. Even if it is not perfectly centered below the nose it will at least get their attention.

 

[mjbskwim]

So my little 22mag NAA revolver and 5 G22 mags isn't enough?
Oh wait,the mags don't work with the mini gun,dang

I personally think you are in a fantasy world if you think you will ever engage and need more than 3-4 rounds.
Unless some dumb a$$ sends you to war.

Notice the number of years it tokk to come up with some real doosy gun fights.
What are the real chances of ever being in a gun fight or even pulling your gun.

Yes mr BK I know you have in Sacramento,so lets let the other kids talk now.

Personally,over the last 25 years of speratic CCW,even downtown Seattle, Tacoma's south end,and Lakewood (you know from the TV show cops?),oh and Spanaway, I have only needed to even think about pulling a gun 3 times
None of which,did I ever clear leather.

I believe the chances are slim if you carry yourself correctly and keep the bubblegum out of stupid situations in bad neighborhoods.

No I don't carry very often,but when I do,I carry a G22 with 15 rounds and a spare.
Except now I have my NAA 22mag 5 shot.Couldn't find a nice 357,so this will do.

 

[DOA]

I must be one of those exceptions to the rule. Before I ever CC I had 3 instances of needing a weapon. God was definetly watching over me!!! I had a "friend", pull a gun on me and put it directly into my chest at a party because someone made some bubblegum up. I didn't even know he owned a gun! Then couple years later I was robbed in my own home at gun point by 5 guys with guns. Last time I ever have left a door unlocked again, after being pistol whipped with a shotgun to the back of the head. Called the cops nothing happened, but they wondered why me...as if I really knew! To this day I still don't have an answer 15yrs later. That became my reason for my first shotgun & handgun purchase. Then another time but, I was dumb enough to try to help someone out, without any protection. It ended without anything bad happening.

Now that I have children and a pitbull mauled a 5yr old girl on our block, and all the incidents while out fishing with the little ones. I never leave home without it, for their sake alone. Even when I check the mail...there are many pitbulls and large dogs around. And I'm not going to stand around during an Alpha male show down with my child. Or find myself in harms way and leave them without a father.

*edit* It all happened long ago (18-15yrs) in the midwest of all places.

 

[DOA]

My children and wife became my reason to CC. I will never buy into the slim chances theory based on MY personal experiences. I'm happy to be an exception...it leaves a definite highlight reel that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

 

[RallySoob]

My friends dad was a 101 Airborn Ranger in Vietnam War and did some serious work...2 tours in jungle. He has medals and all that...even the key to some city in california for stopping a robbery attempt when he got back. He told us that the .45 gets it done and he knows from experience. He said before that they were having to shoot VC with their 9mm more than 5 a piece to put them down sometimes. and when they went to .45 it was a 1 shot situation. Only person I know with experience actually shooting human targets and he carries a GI 1911 .45 everyday. I wouldn't downplay the power of a .45, I here it works great

 

[MA Duce]

My friends dad was a 101 Airborn Ranger in Vietnam War and did some serious work...2 tours in jungle. He has medals and all that...even the key to some city in california for stopping a robbery attempt when he got back. He told us that the .45 gets it done and he knows from experience. He said before that they were having to shoot VC with their 9mm more than 5 a piece to put them down sometimes. and when they went to .45 it was a 1 shot situation. Only person I know with experience actually shooting human targets and he carries a GI 1911 .45 everyday. I wouldn't downplay the power of a .45, I here it works great

Who carried a 9mm in Vietnam??? Unless it was a personal weapon? Something sounds odd there, but I wonder why you would use a 9mm when you got .45 ammo for free. I was involved in Operation Market Time, on the CGC Point Clear (WPB-82315 ). I know some guys in the boonies had personal weapons, so I suppose it is possible.

 

[coop44]

The real trick is surviving the E.R.

 

[Collateral]

Well, I guess it's time -

 

[evltwn]

All the ballistic information is greatly appreciated. I love my Kimber and it rides nicely in an El Paso Saddlery shoulder holster, with two extra mags. But not all that often. Either of my two Smith's (a 442 and Model 60) do the major daily concealed duty.

With two extra speed strips, I can deal with a bad guy (0r bad dog) and walk away intact.

The main thought I am getting to is to be armed, period. Whatever you have is better than nothing at all. Again, excellent information on the effectiveness of different calibers.

 

[mjbskwim]

Quote Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
My friends dad was a 101 Airborn Ranger in Vietnam War and did some serious work...2 tours in jungle. He has medals and all that...even the key to some city in california for stopping a robbery attempt when he got back. He told us that the .45 gets it done and he knows from experience. He said before that they were having to shoot VC with their 9mm more than 5 a piece to put them down sometimes. and when they went to .45 it was a 1 shot situation. Only person I know with experience actually shooting human targets and he carries a GI 1911 .45 everyday. I wouldn't downplay the power of a .45, I here it works great

Who carried a 9mm in Vietnam??? Unless it was a personal weapon? Something sounds odd there, but I wonder why you would use a 9mm when you got .45 ammo for free. I was involved in Operation Market Time, on the CGC Point Clear (WPB-82315 ). I know some guys in the boonies had personal weapons, so I suppose it is possible.

Must have been one he took with him cause they didn't change to the Beretta till after Viet Nam.GIs had 1911s over there.

But that was the very reason the 1911 was developed.The 38s were failing the Army terribly and they needed some more power.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A .22 hollow point between the eyes would work every time. If two in the chest with my .45 doesn't at least straighten up the bad guy, I'll assume he's got a vest and put the next one in the face. Even if it is not perfectly centered below the nose it will at least get their attention.

Not so grasshopper.. many persons have been shot right between the eyes and they survived. One woman I recall was shot between the eyes with a .357 magnum by her boyfriend, splitting her skull.. the bullet passed out the back of her head missing both lobes/sides and she was eventually patched up in surgery

Thanks for the stopping power chart, Collateral.. that one never fails to fail.. and make me chuckle

 

[Blitzkrieg]

So my little 22mag NAA revolver and 5 G22 mags isn't enough?
Oh wait,the mags don't work with the mini gun,dang

I personally think you are in a fantasy world if you think you will ever engage and need more than 3-4 rounds.
Unless some dumb a$$ sends you to war.

You've shared this personal fantasy with us before.. while you hide up there in Sequim. Did you bother to read my links above? I could fill up an entire thread page with more stories and videos


4 attackers, fortunately they were not as determined as the other jewelry store story above. Note the cop says "it could happen anywhere":

YouTube - Jewelry Vendor Shoots Robbers (*Disturbing Images*)

Shot 5 rounds, 2 ROUNDS LEFT after he reloaded.. fortunate they ran, and fortunate they were not both armed (both did not shoot):

YouTube - Gunfight Caught on Tape: Store Owner vs. 2 Armed Robbers

AK 47 fun, attacker hit by multiple rounds and survives:

YouTube - tow truck shootout 1

More real world gunfight fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0&playnext=1&list=PLDDE16A8783CFF982