Steyr-Mannlicher M95 Guidance/Advice?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I traded for this yesterday.



I've studied the Mosin for over 12 years now, and probably know most everything there is to know about it, mechanically speaking.

I intend to move on to the M95 now.

What can you tell me about the example I have here? I understand the bolts can be stiff on certain examples?

The way the "S" is printed indicates what country the conversation from 8x50r to 8x56r was done, correct?



Were they all converted, or were some built new to 8x56r?

What are the strengths and shortcomings of the M95? Anything special to pay attention to when I take it apart for the first time?

I can't wait to shoot this. I have a few rounds and a clip on the way. Any help is appreciated. And no, preservationists, I'll make no permanent changes to the rifle unless it's a repair.

Regards,

Josh

P.S. I apologize for the bad pics. I used my phone; the camera is at the shop. Thanks again!

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[Aero Denezol]

There are Austrian and Hungarian M95s, the latter are slightly more scarce and valuable to collectors. I had a Steyr M95 for a while. It was well made and especially when compared to wartime Mosin Nagant rifles. The "S" indicates the 8x56r chamber/barrel. Some were re-barreled but many were mfg. from the beginning to handle the improved cartridge. If memory serves, the rebuilds have an older type of rear sight. Every M95 I've seen has the "S" stamp, new, rebuilt, or otherwise. It is an interesting action, similar to the Swiss K.31 though not nearly as smooth. I know the M95s were issued to rear area troops and police units, and the Nazis mfg. ammo for it. Most M95s served in the Balkans during WWII, which makes sense, since it was the old Hapsburg Austro-Hungarian territory. Maybe @Phantom Man man can jump in here, he has an encyclopedic knowledge on milsurp rifles.

 

[MacReady]

First thing i'd recommend is C&Rsenals excellent in depth video on the Mannlicher 95. They cover a lot of the historical information but theres also technical data too. Im sure many of your questions (and many you wouldnt have thought to ask) are covered.

 

[CLT65]

That one looks really clean. How's the bore?

I have one that I bought twenty-some years ago. I've shot it a fair amount, even went down the rabbit hole a bit with reloading and casting for it. My cast-powder coated reloads are less abusive to the shoulder than the full-power surplus rounds. I have a bunch of old surplus that I'll probably never shoot now.

They're fun to shoot, and the carbines especially kick pretty hard. Many years ago I was shooting with two teenage nephews. They shot the M95 and some heavy loaded 45-70 rounds until their shoulders were black and blue and they were smiling from ear to ear.

 

[ma96782]

First thing i'd recommend is C&Rsenals excellent in depth video on the Mannlicher 95. They cover a lot of the historical information but theres also technical data too. Im sure many of your questions (and many you wouldnt have thought to ask) are covered.

Yup....

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

I didn't know. AND, I never said to do it either. ALL RISK is on the shooter (himself or herself).

Aloha, Mark

 

[Josh Smith]

There are Austrian and Hungarian M95s, the latter are slightly more scarce and valuable to collectors. I had a Steyr M95 for a while. It was well made and especially when compared to wartime Mosin Nagant rifles. The "S" indicates the 8x56r chamber/barrel. Some were re-barreled but many were mfg. from the beginning to handle the improved cartridge. If memory serves, the rebuilds have an older type of rear sight. Every M95 I've seen has the "S" stamp, new, rebuilt, or otherwise. It is an interesting action, similar to the Swiss K.31 though not nearly as smooth. I know the M95s were issued to rear area troops and police units, and the Nazis mfg. ammo for it. Most M95s served in the Balkans during WWII, which makes sense, since it was the old Hapsburg Austro-Hungarian territory. Maybe @Phantom Man man can jump in here, he has an encyclopedic knowledge on milsurp rifles.

Thank you.

I took it apart yesterday and fitted the bolt properly. It went from being rough to being buttery smooth. It's been a while since I worked a Swiss bolt, but I don't recall it being any smoother than the M95's is now.

Interestingly, I only found a couple additional marks. Still no import stamp I can find, or year.

 

[ma96782]

Some Cons?

Aloha, Mark

 

[coop44]

8x56r is a real thumper, had a couple in the past, carbines. Lots of recoil, I would go to the range and shoot maybe 10 rounds, and was done with it for the day. I have heard of the earlier 8x50r and 8mm mauser guns, but never seen one. With a clip like the carcano I can see why they fell out of favor with the militaries.

 

[Phantom Man]

There are Austrian and Hungarian M95s, the latter are slightly more scarce and valuable to collectors. I had a Steyr M95 for a while. It was well made and especially when compared to wartime Mosin Nagant rifles. The "S" indicates the 8x56r chamber/barrel. Some were re-barreled but many were mfg. from the beginning to handle the improved cartridge. If memory serves, the rebuilds have an older type of rear sight. Every M95 I've seen has the "S" stamp, new, rebuilt, or otherwise. It is an interesting action, similar to the Swiss K.31 though not nearly as smooth. I know the M95s were issued to rear area troops and police units, and the Nazis mfg. ammo for it. Most M95s served in the Balkans during WWII, which makes sense, since it was the old Hapsburg Austro-Hungarian territory. Maybe @Phantom Man man can jump in here, he has an encyclopedic knowledge on milsurp rifles.

Dennis, sadly I know almost nothing about M95s but that they really kick.

 

[gmerkt]

The last of the M95's were made circa 1919. The 8x56R cartridge didn't come out until circa 1930. So none were originally made in 8x56R.

Many of the conversions to 8x56R were done in Austria throughout the 1930's. When Germany annexed Austria in 1938, Austrian forces were converted to German Army standard arms and the M95's were quickly phased out as a standard rifle. A large number of M95's were sold to German ally Bulgaria circa 1938-39 in both 8x50R and 8x56R. The Bulgarians rebuilt some of these. The barrel doesn't have to be changed to convert to 8x56R, the chamber can simply be reamed deeper. Which for the Austrians was part of the beauty of the conversion, it was economical. Of course some of the original barrels were rusted and or worn out, and these were replaced with 8x56R barrels.

Another large number of M95's were converted in Hungary, which had retained this rifle after the end of WW1. They converted to 8x56R circa 1931. However, a new rifle was wanted in Hungary and the 35M turnbolt action Mannlicter was adopted in 1935. I assume the reason the Hungarians continued manufacturing new rifles in what was essentially a stop-gap, obsolescent cartridge was because they already had so many M95's (31M in Hungary) on hand. The 35M later was newly made in 7.92x57 Mauser cartridge as the 43M

The Austro-Hungarian Army was close to adoption of the Mauser Model 98 rifle in 7x57mm when WW1 began. Once the conflict was under way, it was decided to defer the conversion to a Mauser 98 rifle. As a result, several million were made.

The Bulgarians had been an early customer for the M95, first buying some in 1903. They were still using them in the late 1930's, so they were a natural buyer for the surplus ex-Austrian rifles circa 1938-39. I don't remember all the details, but many of the M95 rifles that hit the US surplus market in the 1990's were from Bulgaria. Most had been rebuilt and put into storage after the Bulgarians converted to a more modern rifle after WW2. Not entirely, as the M95's were still used for training into the 1980's and a lesser quantity of very beat-up rifles came through surplus channels.

The Bulgarians didn't convert every M95 that came into their hands. There were many rebuilt examples still chambered in 8x50R that came in the 1990's imports. Most of the M95's from Bulgaria were short rifles and carbines but a lesser number were still in long rifle configuration. The reason you will find rear sight variations on the short rifles is because when converted, whatever rear sight was originally used was retained. E.g., you will find long rifle sights on short rifles.

At the conclusion of WW1, one of the stipulations of the peace was that the Central Powers would pay reparations. One way Austria partially satisfied this requirement was to turn over large quantities of arms to various Allied Powers countries. Like Italy, and that's how so many M95's found their way to east Africa, places where Italy had and later acquired more colonies. Some of these are still trickling back to the US as surplus imports.

The M95's converted to 7.92x57 Mauser were done in Greece (M95/24) and Yugoslavia (M95M) prior to 1945. I've had a few of these. The extractor is fairly fragile, as it is in the Hungarian 35M.

I've owned lots of M95's over the years. In my experience, the long rifle doesn't impart quite the same healthy recoil of the short rifles and carbines. At one time, I reloaded for mine and that was the answer to the recoil problem.

"Back in the day," the concept of infantry riflery was long distance. As a consequence, the sights on these rifles are typically regulated for longer ranges. On the couple of short rifles that I shot much, I changed the original front sight out for a taller one that regulated the sights downward to a (for me) more realistic range of 100 yards. You can get a replacement front sight (for Mauser) from Brownell's.

 

[gmerkt]

The original 8x50R cartridge was a "bore rider," that is, the bullet rode on the lands and it had an obturating base to seal the gases. When the 8x56R was developed, the bullet was updated as a spitzer and rode in the grooves. This is a conundrum for reloaders of the 8x50R. Because I can't think of anywhere to get obturating, undersized bullets. The best you can hope for is to use a cast bullet sized to .329. 8x50R chambers are usually on the generous side, allowing the .329 bullet seated in an 8x50R case to chamber.

 

[Josh Smith]

Thank you for the replies, folks.

8x56r is a real thumper, had a couple in the past, carbines. Lots of recoil, I would go to the range and shoot maybe 10 rounds, and was done with it for the day. I have heard of the earlier 8x50r and 8mm mauser guns, but never seen one. With a clip like the carcano I can see why they fell out of favor with the militaries.

I finally got to shoot it some yesterday with PPU ammo. I really don't think it thumps all that badly. Granted, it's not military surplus so I don't know if they downloaded it some.

It's right on par with 7.62x54r from a 91/30, I think, though the 91/30 is a couple pounds heavier. The 8x56r seems to have a bit more of a "push," which makes sense given its heavier bullet over what's probably a slower powder than was used in 7.62x54r light ball.

The original 8x50R cartridge was a "bore rider," that is, the bullet rode on the lands and it had an obturating base to seal the gases. When the 8x56R was developed, the bullet was updated as a spitzer and rode in the grooves. This is a conundrum for reloaders of the 8x50R. Because I can't think of anywhere to get obturating, undersized bullets. The best you can hope for is to use a cast bullet sized to .329. 8x50R chambers are usually on the generous side, allowing the .329 bullet seated in an 8x50R case to chamber.

It looks like, from what I'm reading, this worked because the original bullet had a very long bearing surface. Riding the lands was common back in the early smokeless powder days.

Apparently several militaries found, upon switching to spitzer bullets, that the shorter bearing surface of the new bullets was no longer adequate to engage the rifling well enough to provide acceptable precision. Several bullets were bumped up in diameter; the 8x50r's 0.323" bullet became a 0.330" bullet in the 8x56r, and the 7.92x57 M88's 0.318" bullet became a 0.323" bullet in the 7.92x57I (the first 8mm "Mauser") round.

It might be interesting to find some long 0.323" bullets and try using them in the Steyr carbine.

Regards,
Josh

 

[gmerkt]

It might be interesting to find some long 0.323" bullets and try using them in the Steyr carbine.

The problem with that being, they wouldn't have an obturating base. At least not what we can buy here in the US. Unless you could modify the base of a conventional bullet somehow. Without an obturating base, the .323 bullet would work in an 8x50R but not well. Which I've tried. I've had a couple of 8x50R's, and a die set from CH. I went the easy route and used .329 / .330 cast bullets. I had two sizing buttons with that dies set, like some people have .308 and .311 for 7.62x39. I never had any of the proper based .323 +/- bullets for it.

At one time, there was a bit of surplus Bulgarian military-made 8x50R drifting around here, circa 1990's, it had 1930's head stamps on it. I've never seen any here, but some may have been made after WW2. At one time, I knew a former Warsaw Pact era Bulgarian ordnance officer, he said they were still using the M95 for training during his time. Some of the training rifles were demilled, had a section of the barrel milled out, likely basic training type pieces.

Quite a few of the M95's wound in in east Africa and were used for decades. Ammo had to be made for those, maybe in Italy but I've never read anything about that.

There are offerings here and there for 8x50R on the internet, but these use .330 jacketed bullets.

The 8x56r seems to have a bit more of a "push," which makes sense given its heavier bullet over what's probably a slower powder than was used in 7.62x54r light ball.

My guess (and it's only that) is the original European cut sheet powder used in 8x56R is somewhere around IMR 4350 in burning speed.