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Start shooting Limited or learn to count to ten?

Discussion in 'Competitive Shooting' started by mcfoto, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. mcfoto

    mcfoto Newberg Active Member

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    Hi all,

    Looking at my calendar, it's looking like I shot my last match of the year last Saturday which is giving me some time off to reflect and re-tune. Since my first USPSA match in September of last year, I've been shooting Production with my XDm. While I continue to improve, there are still times when I don't get my round count right and end up out with only one round through a best of two metric. It was suggested to me by one of the more experienced shooters that I follow what they did: start shooting Limited so I can concentrate on shooting and less on mag changes (which I'm not fast but have gotten pretty smooth). It's a bit daunting for me to be in a classification that I see a lot of very good shooters in so I know I won't be competitive for a long time. I'm a solid D in production and have as a loose goal to make C by the end of next year. Starting over in a class that I might not qualify to even D by midyear seems also discouraging. At one point, in a fit of gear lust I was considering getting a 1911 and moving into Single Stack but realize my mag change issues will be amplified.

    Thoughts, please. Poll included for easy opining.
     
  2. NWGlockgal

    NWGlockgal Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I started off in Production so I didn't have to worry about the minor/major stuff.
    I also automatically count rounds so keeping track didn't bother me.
    However, I finally realized I am never going to be good at it and the mag change is a pain.
    So I switched to Limited and go strictly to get some practice, learn something, and have fun.
     
    mcfoto, BDA.45, nammac and 1 other person like this.
  3. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Just spitballin here but the "P" in USPSA stands for "practical".
    Personally, I'd run what ya brung.. or ideally, what you normally carry on the street but only slightly modified (number of magazines etc.). anyway
     
    bbbass, Stomper, mcfoto and 2 others like this.
  4. ac4wordplay

    ac4wordplay Oregon New Member

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    Let's work with the concerns that you've expressed.

    As you've already concluded, moving to Single Stack doesn't minimize any of the issues you seem concerned with. Maybe dismiss this division for the immediate/near future?

    Do you have gear (especially capacity and caliber) to compete in Limited? I think most Limited competitors feel that it's a virtual requirement to have a major power factor caliber (.40) and 140mm magazine capacity of 18 to 20 (more is better, all else being equal). Remember that minor power factor results in a points scoring disadvantage (appendix B2 and B3 - rule book pages 62 and 64) for non-A hits that are scored. The concerns that you listed above (for participating in Limited) are understandable, but switching to Limited doesn't (directly) strengthen what you've identified as your "weakness" ("there are still times when I don't get my round count right and end up out with only one round through a best of two metric"). It's worth mentioning that on occasion it happens to most (all?) of us. It usually happens (for Prod, L, and L-10) when the competitor needs to spend an additional (unplanned) round (or more?) on a difficult shot (usually steel that doesn't go down... when it isn't hit) then continues to the next targets with fewer rounds in the gun than they had planned. There are steps that one can take to minimize this risk and frequency.

    Staying in Production will allow you to work on your "weakness" (practice stage strategy, planned re-load points, shot/capacity awareness, etc.) AND (at the same time) keep you working toward your goal of making C in Production.

    I hope you don't feel discouraged with Production - you've identified what to work on, and you've set a reasonable goal for your performance in the division. That sounds excellent to me and I vote that you stay in Production a while longer... But... as long as you're (safely) having fun, there probably isn't a bad choice. (I like carrots too)

    Best,

    ac
     
  5. BDA.45

    BDA.45 oregon Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    My personal opinion?.....Stay in production and get good at it......Its really your personal preference. I shoot production cause I shoot IDPA.... "Practical".......
     
    bbbass likes this.
  6. mcfoto

    mcfoto Newberg Active Member

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    The thought here is by shooting Limited, I could load up the XDm's mags to the 18 round capacity or invest in mag extensions to get to 20. But even then, as you point out I'd be shooting minor so big disadvantages against competition with custom 2011's with 140mm mags in .40.
     
  7. Unibrain

    Unibrain Portland Member

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    You should be planning when and where to reload and not counting rounds. You plan reloads in Limited, in Production, in Single Stack, and in Open. The difference is in Limited/Open you plan 1 maybe 2 reloads and in the others you plan 3 or 4.

    As ac4wordplay points out, you are probably getting off of your plan because of extra unplanned shots. Moving to Limited will cover up the unplanned shot issue but it will still haunt you when you suddenly go to slide lock (Xdm) or nothing goes bang (2011).

    My suggestion is to stay in production and work on planning when you reload vs counting shots. If you are still having a problem with unplanned reloads then figure out why and work on those things. Until you can make a plan and execute you'll struggle in the results. Until you can shoot and hit things consistently you will struggle with the classifiers.

    Unibrain - Production/B, Limited/B, Single Stack/B and new Open shooter
     
    BDA.45 likes this.
  8. Unibrain

    Unibrain Portland Member

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    And one more thing - Ask some of the other shooters for help at a match. We are a friendly bunch are very willing to help.

    Oh and another - Squad with people that are better than you, and in the same Division, and watch what they do. You can learn a lot.
     
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  9. NWGlockgal

    NWGlockgal Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I used to slow down my shooting so it would minimize any hits other than A's.
    However, it also creates really slow times which don't make up for the non A hits.
    So I've tried to speed things up (not very successfully! :) ) and accept less accuracy. The next step will be to try changing to a .40.
     
  10. Pepe-lepew

    Pepe-lepew Mid Valley Active Member

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    Custom 2011's,140mm mags and major PF doesn't give competitors skill. Good marksmanship, stage planning and dry fire practice will give you skill.

    Your classification in one division will be close to the same as your classification in another division. Shooters generally do not have more or less skill depending on the division they shoot.

    Stage planning, not round counting, is how you prevent standing reloads. It is important whether you shoot production or limited. In production you will gain reloading on the move skills faster, in limited you will gain skills shooting in and out of positions faster. Both sets of skills are important if you want to move up in classification.
     
    skeezix likes this.
  11. skeezix

    skeezix Lebanon, OR All around nice guy Bronze Supporter

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    1.There is no disadvantage to shooting minor, as long as you are shooting A's.
    2. Plenty of the classifier stages require a mag change somewhere in the COF.
    3. There is a match at ARPC in Shedd, OR this Saturday (DEC 10)