Smokeless Powders Ease Of Ignition Rate Chart.

[arakboss]

I am not sure what the scientific terms would be but some smokeless powders ignite easier than others. Is there a chart that provides this information? Where else would I be able to find the info?

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[P7M13]

Burn rate chart is the most common predictor
Do you have data on the energy required for ignition?

 

[arakboss]

Burn rate chart is the most common predictor
Do you have data on the energy required for ignition?

I don't. I have heard that ball powders are harder to ignite compared to stick powders even if they share a comparable burn rate? I wonder if there is more to it than just the burn rate?

 

[P7M13]

Simplest answer is to experiment.
Ball vs. Stick are different manufacturing processes with different surface coatings.

Are you concerned over primer choice as an ignition source, or using something else?

 

[oremike]

I think it has to do with how dense the ball powders stack compared to stick powders.

 

[robertvarner]

Maybe this is what you are referring to...

 

[Mikej]

Maybe this is what you are referring to...

View attachment 1255751

Anybody that hand loads should have that on their table and be aware of how it relates to powder choices.

 

[robertvarner]

This one is arranged by powder manufacturer.

 

[Mikej]

This one is arranged by powder manufacturer.

View attachment 1255753

That's different! It's kind of a pain searching through the columns to see where a powder falls. I might print that out. I wish I could find one that has all the new(er) powders too.

 

[robertvarner]

Here's a link to a YouTube video to help explain it:

 

[robertvarner]

Here's a practical method for choosing a powder:

If you are a new reloader, you can keep your face, fingers, and your rifle by purchasing a reloading manual. It's definitely a necessity.

 

[arrowshooter]

As stated above, I believe that the Burn Rate Charts would be your best source. I have never taken a match to say #1 on the chart and then to #159, but with a quick stop watch trigger (might need Jerry M for this) and a consistent flame source you could figure it out. An interesting test setup might be the use of a Flintlock "lock" as the ignition source.

There is also the whole standard primer vs magnum primer thing that gets into stick vs ball powder, but I do not think this would be a true test of ignition speed.

 

[robertvarner]

I've only been reloading for 4 years, but the first thing I learned after "MUCH" research is to have patience. Reloading is not something you want to rush through. The results can be life-altering. Sometimes if it's a pain, it may avoid physical pain for life.

There are many resources for researching which powder to choose. Take your time and do lots of research and compare different sources of information.

Generally, only use published load data if you are new to reloading. If you're using a powder (or bullets) you're not familiar with, start on the low end of the powder charge and work up, checking each case for signs of high pressure; scratches or bulges at the base, or any crack developing on the case.

Always inspect each case you reload before building each round to be sure you are using brass in top condition. There's much more, but you get the idea.

It's a hobby for you to definately have patience with. Don't rush it!

 

[Certaindeaf]

I've only been reloading for 4 years, but the first thing I learned after "MUCH" research is to have patience. Reloading is not something you want to rush through. The results can be life-altering. Sometimes if it's a pain, it may avoid physical pain for life.

There are many resources for researching which powder to choose. Take your time and do lots of research and compare different sources of information.

Generally, only use published load data if you are new to reloading. If you're using a powder (or bullets) you're not familiar with, start on the low end of the powder charge and work up, checking each case for signs of high pressure; scratches or bulges at the base, or any crack developing on the case.

Always inspect each case you reload before building each round to be sure you are using brass in top condition. There's much more, but you get the idea.

It's a hobby for you to definately have patience with. Don't rush it!

TLDR, blew myself up.




Lol, not really.

 

[arakboss]

Simplest answer is to experiment.
Ball vs. Stick are different manufacturing processes with different surface coatings.

Are you concerned over primer choice as an ignition source, or using something else?

"Are you concerned over primer choice as an ignition source, or using something else?"

Using something else or using less conventional primer choices, could be some of the reasons, somebody might be concerned about how difficult a particular powder or type of powder is to light. We know black powder ignites very easily, smokeless powders not so easily. Some smokeless powders may need more pressure than others to ignite well. I am familiar with burn rate charts but did not assume that they also predicted the energy, pressure, etc needed to ignite them.

I am trying to better understand different aspects of powder choices that I haven't really given much thought to in the past.

 

[arrowshooter]

Using something else or using less conventional primer choices

I figured this is where you were headed. I'll start with this:

I have tested Standard and Magnum primers using identical eight shot ladders of H335 in .223 and found no measurable difference in speed or accuracy of the projectile, so results were inconclusive. But to me, a better test would be using a larger volume of powder which I believe is what magnum primers were designed for in the first place.

I have done the comparison of black powder vs smokeless, but I have also put a match to each powder I use and there are definite differences. I have thought about taking some time to test different ignition sources such as flint & steel, gas torch striker, piezo igniter and an "arc" cigarette lighter, but doing these types of things outside would not be a good example for the neighbor kids, and doing it in the garage always got me in trouble.

Good talk.

 

[arakboss]

I figured this is where you were headed. I'll start with this:

I have tested Standard and Magnum primers using identical eight shot ladders of H335 in .223 and found no measurable difference in speed or accuracy of the projectile, so results were inconclusive. But to me, a better test would be using a larger volume of powder which I believe is what magnum primers were designed for in the first place.

I have done the comparison of black powder vs smokeless, but I have also put a match to each powder I use and there are definite differences. I have thought about taking some time to test different ignition sources such as flint & steel, gas torch striker, piezo igniter and an "arc" cigarette lighter, but doing these types of things outside would not be a good example for the neighbor kids, and doing it in the garage always got me in trouble.

Good talk.

I was thinking back to an experiment a member or members were doing with reloading primers. I don't know what came of it but I am guessing if they got it work the primers would be on the weak side and they would want the easiest powder to ignite for the cartridge bullet combo they were loading.

I have experimented with loading pistol primers in place of rifle primers for rifle cartridges. I had good success but that was with pistol type powders and Unique. I have considered trying it with full power rifle powders but would want to pick from those that would be easiest to ignite. Probably not ball powders.

 

[arrowshooter]

Compression of the load will also come into play, but that is something I am not will to test other than with loads that are "listed" by powder manufacturers such as for A2200 for the 6.8 SPC. I can say I have found that a compressed load of black powder will not light , even after a dozen caps.

 

[arrowshooter]

Making primers has always intrigued me, and this goes back to the old days of cap guns (love that smell) and what makes something explode when you hit it with a hammer. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

 

[Mikej]

But to me, a better test would be using a larger volume of powder which I believe is what magnum primers were designed for in the first place.

I'm still somewhat confused as to whether mag primers have a hotter fire, a thicker cup to handle higher pressures in magnum rounds, or both. OR? It depends on the primer manufacturer?