shotgun for new shotgunner

[Ura-Ki]

 

[pietro beretta]

1100 is a bit more expensive than the 870. 1100 is a good semi-auto shotgun, going to be better for doubles, but more expensive.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Not my first choice for a entry level shot gun, but the 1187 seams better able to contend with high volume shooting with out getting as dirty! I used to use my 1187 super mag in comps just to show a true field gun doing very well what comp guns can do!

 

[Ura-Ki]

I just thought of this one, Why not try and find a nice old Rem 870 Wingmaster! Those old 870's were about as good as it gets!

 

[Liberty Machinist]

Back when I was looking for my first shotgun I worked in a machine shop
full of hunters and fishermen. I was asking if there was "one" shotgun
that you could just about do everything with what would it be?

Like everyone else has suggested a Rem 870 in 12 gauge isn't a badway to go!

Great price to get started with!

It's totally customizable to your needs for home defense or hunting...

If you can find a chamber length of 3-1/2 you can go hunting from anything to goose and grouse.

Another added benefit of getting a synthetic stock is if you fall down in a mud puddle and get it wet + scratch it up is that you won't cry about it like nicer more expensive guns.... Ask me how I know this!

My 2 cents

 

[Hrethgir]

My first shotgun was a Mossberg 500 20ga. I was down at BiMart looking for a shotgun, and went with the 20 over the 12 because they were the same price, but the 20 came with 2 barrels, a 26" and a shorter one, forget the length. Bu the long barrel was good for shooting clays the one time I got to do that, and the shorter barrel makes for a better home-defense weapon. Also, when ammo is harder to find, 12 is more popular, so it's usually a little easier to find 20 on the shelf!

 

[tlfreek]

thanks again guys. I have lots of great information here.

 

[U8395279]

**disclaimer...I did absolutely no analysis/searching before posting this.....I am looking to this forum for help.

That is your first mistake right off the bat: not doing any homework yourself upfront. You should always do some reading and research on your own first, and never go into a purchase blind, and solely relying on what others tell you. And that is because advice from other people is often very much biased towards their own personal preferences. And their preferences may not be ideal for you.

I'm not sure why you are thinking of getting a 20 gauge shotgun. They are no where near as versatile as a 12 gauge. And with smaller patterns and less shot, hitting targets will be more difficult. So you will be handicapping yourself.

Are you small in stature? Or real recoil sensitive? One can buy very light powered 12 gauge target loads. And felt recoil shooting a gas powered semi-auto shotgun is much lighter than shooting a pump action or a double barrel gun. But more cleaning and maintenance is involved with a semi-auto.

Even more important, what is your shooting experience? How old are you, and how many years have you been shooting? What types and calibers of guns do you currently shoot, and are familiar with using?

No one here can decide what is best for you, as we know nothing whatsoever about you. Only you are going to be able to do that.

If I were you, I would check in with the nearby shotgun ranges that you plan to shoot at, and see if they have shooting instruction available, as well as shotguns to rent. You will often find that people at a range will be most helpful in assisting beginners learn. And quite a few people will even let you take a few shotguns with their shotgun, if you want to try different types of guns out.



.

 

[Joe13]

That is your first mistake right off the bat: not doing any homework yourself upfront. You should always do some reading and research on your own first, and never go into a purchase blind, and solely relying on what others tell you. And that is because advice from other people is often very much biased towards their own personal preferences. And their preferences may not be ideal for you.

I'm not sure why you are thinking of getting a 20 gauge shotgun. They are no where near as versatile as a 12 gauge. And with smaller patterns and less shot, hitting targets will be more difficult. So you will be handicapping yourself.

Are you small in stature? Or real recoil sensitive? One can buy very light powered 12 gauge target loads. And felt recoil shooting a gas powered semi-auto shotgun is much lighter than shooting a pump action or a double barrel gun. But more cleaning and maintenance is involved with a semi-auto.

Even more important, what is your shooting experience? How old are you, and how many years have you been shooting? What types and calibers of guns do you currently shoot, and are familiar with using?

No one here can decide what is best for you, as we know nothing whatsoever about you. Only you are going to be able to do that.

If I were you, I would check in with the nearby shotgun ranges that you plan to shoot at, and see if they have shooting instruction available, as well as shotguns to rent. You will often find that people at a range will be most helpful in assisting beginners learn. And quite a few people will even let you take a few shotguns with their shotgun, if you want to try different types of guns out.



.

Decent points.

However, I got that the OP was looking for a place to start researching and what to look into first vs going online and reading until your a shotgun expert before asking any questions of a fairly knowledgeable community.


He stated he was clueless with shotguns and they are not 100% like other firearms so I don't see how many other guns he has or old he is should matter (I thought you had to be 18 to have an account here).

He also clearly indicated what he wanted the gun for so that's more info then most people post on the OP half the time.

Hopefully he takes what's here and expands it on his own and doesn't just run out and buy the first "whatever he decided sounds best" he sees.


I'm sure you are trying to be helpful as all your points had merit except IMO shaming him a bit about not googling the net about this stuff first.

 

[U8395279]

Decent points.

However, I got that the OP was looking for a place to start researching and what to look into first vs going online and reading until your a shotgun expert before asking any questions of a fairly knowledgeable community.


He stated he was clueless with shotguns and they are not 100% like other firearms so I don't see how many other guns he has or old he is should matter (I thought you had to be 18 to have an account here).

He also clearly indicated what he wanted the gun for so that's more info then most people post on the OP half the time.

Hopefully he takes what's here and expands it on his own and doesn't just run out and buy the first "whatever he decided sounds best" he sees.


I'm sure you are trying to be helpful as all your points had merit except IMO shaming him a bit about not googling the net about this stuff first.

A person needs to become self-reliant, in order to be successful in life. There is no substitute for personal knowledge and experience. And you cannot gain adequate knowledge and experience by simply asking other people their opinions in an online forum. It is not at all an effective way to learn the basics of any subject of any kind. Now once you do have a foundation of basic knowledge down on a subject, then asking more specific questions in a forum to build upon that knowledge can be helpful.

He could read some books on skeet and trap ( before the Internet, there were things called books that existed ), and he could most definitely learn a lot first hand at his local shooting range, as I recommended to him ( did not notice anyone else making that recommendation ). I see that the Clark County Gun Club does indeed have a number of different types and gauges of shotguns that are available to rent. Or if any of his friends or relatives owns a shotgun, he should ask them to give him instruction. So I would also recommend that he impose on any friends or relatives that might be able to help.

I was most fortunate as I learned a ton of stuff about guns, shooting, and hunting from my dad and my mother's uncle. My dad had Browning Auto-5's and my granduncle had a Winchester Model 12. That is how I began in these sports. My dad grew up living on a farm in the Sacramento Valley in California, which was pretty much a bird hunter's paradise back then. So he knew a lot about shotguns that he past on to me. But I also read quite a few books, too.

So no, my feedback about him not doing any homework stands. It is a most valid point to make. He will do much better in life, if he follows that advice.

 

[etrain16]

A person needs to become self-reliant, in order to be successful in life. There is no substitute for personal knowledge and experience. And you cannot gain adequate knowledge and experience by simply asking other people their opinions in an online forum. It is not at all an effective way to learn the basics of any subject of any kind. Now once you do have a foundation of basic knowledge down on a subject, then asking more specific questions in a forum to build upon that knowledge can be helpful.

He could read some books on skeet and trap ( before the Internet, there were things called books that existed ), and he could most definitely learn a lot first hand at his local shooting range, as I recommended to him ( did not notice anyone else making that recommendation ). I see that the Clark County Gun Club does indeed have a number of different types and gauges of shotguns that are available to rent. Or if any of his friends or relatives owns a shotgun, he should ask them to give him instruction. So I would also recommend that he impose on any friends or relatives that might be able to help.

I was most fortunate as I learned a ton of stuff about guns, shooting, and hunting from my dad and my mother's uncle. My dad had Browning Auto-5's and my granduncle had a Winchester Model 12. That is how I began in these sports. My dad grew up living on a farm in the Sacramento Valley in California, which was pretty much a bird hunter's paradise back then. So he knew a lot about shotguns that he past on to me. But I also read quite a few books, too.

So no, my feedback about him not doing any homework stands. It is a most valid point to make. He will do much better in life, if he follows that advice.

While I agree with you that doing your own research is an important part of the process, I wouldn't discount asking folks on the forum for their opinions. It is a valid form of research, it's really no different than talking to friends, family, co-workers, etc. Back in '94, when I wanted to buy my first handgun and get my CHL, I knew very little about either. The interwebs weren't available to me at that time, and magazines are so heavily biased due to being paid for their reviews as to be difficult to discern real facts from paid opinions. So I went about asking people I knew. They had both concrete information and opinions, which helped guide me in my research. From there, I went to magazines, books, etc. to further research. Asking them first saved me what would have been a lot of wasted time.

But honestly, I find asking folks first to be a great time saver. Add to that, you can gain some real-world based opinions. I think we all know there are books, magazines and websites out there that never, ever give a negative review because they're paid to give only positive reviews. I find that kind of information useless. Chances are, opinions in a place like this are going to be a bit less biased, at least from the viewpoint of a paid reviewer.

That's my 2 cents. I personally have saved time by getting opinions here first. While I don't consider it my only form of research, it is certainly one of many very valid options.

 

[Joe13]

A person needs to become self-reliant, in order to be successful in life. There is no substitute for personal knowledge and experience. And you cannot gain adequate knowledge and experience by simply asking other people their opinions in an online forum. It is not at all an effective way to learn the basics of any subject of any kind. Now once you do have a foundation of basic knowledge down on a subject, then asking more specific questions in a forum to build upon that knowledge can be helpful.

He could read some books on skeet and trap ( before the Internet, there were things called books that existed ), and he could most definitely learn a lot first hand at his local shooting range, as I recommended to him ( did not notice anyone else making that recommendation ). I see that the Clark County Gun Club does indeed have a number of different types and gauges of shotguns that are available to rent. Or if any of his friends or relatives owns a shotgun, he should ask them to give him instruction. So I would also recommend that he impose on any friends or relatives that might be able to help.

I was most fortunate as I learned a ton of stuff about guns, shooting, and hunting from my dad and my mother's uncle. My dad had Browning Auto-5's and my granduncle had a Winchester Model 12. That is how I began in these sports. My dad grew up living on a farm in the Sacramento Valley in California, which was pretty much a bird hunter's paradise back then. So he knew a lot about shotguns that he past on to me. But I also read quite a few books, too.

So no, my feedback about him not doing any homework stands. It is a most valid point to make. He will do much better in life, if he follows that advice.

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree - no harm in that.

While I agree with you that doing your own research is an important part of the process, I wouldn't discount asking folks on the forum for their opinions. It is a valid form of research, it's really no different than talking to friends, family, co-workers, etc. Back in '94, when I wanted to buy my first handgun and get my CHL, I knew very little about either. The interwebs weren't available to me at that time, and magazines are so heavily biased due to being paid for their reviews as to be difficult to discern real facts from paid opinions. So I went about asking people I knew. They had both concrete information and opinions, which helped guide me in my research. From there, I went to magazines, books, etc. to further research. Asking them first saved me what would have been a lot of wasted time.

But honestly, I find asking folks first to be a great time saver. Add to that, you can gain some real-world based opinions. I think we all know there are books, magazines and websites out there that never, ever give a negative review because they're paid to give only positive reviews. I find that kind of information useless. Chances are, opinions in a place like this are going to be a bit less biased, at least from the viewpoint of a paid reviewer.

That's my 2 cents. I personally have saved time by getting opinions here first. While I don't consider it my only form of research, it is certainly one of many very valid options.

+1 because I agree and I'm too lazy to type all that out

 

[PaulB47]

There is a difference between asking a few initial questions, and being a pest or a time sink. It's smart to respond nicely to newbies...

I am not a shotgun person but somehow ended up with a Winchester 1300 (?) 12 guage and I did go out and buy a Mossy 20-guage, more for my wife than anything. I like the 20 guage but feeding it defensive ammo seems harder for some reason I don't understand. Just not that much out there.

I wonder if lightly-loaded 12-guage shells could be used. Might help the recoil-shy, and increase how many can be loaded if they are short (?), but the gun is still going to be a lot larger and unwieldy.

Overall I don't really see what a shotgun can do that an AR-15 can't (defensively anyway). The reverse is not true however.

 

[U8395279]

While I agree with you that doing your own research is an important part of the process, I wouldn't discount asking folks on the forum for their opinions. It is a valid form of research, it's really no different than talking to friends, family, co-workers, etc. Back in '94, when I wanted to buy my first handgun and get my CHL, I knew very little about either. The interwebs weren't available to me at that time, and magazines are so heavily biased due to being paid for their reviews as to be difficult to discern real facts from paid opinions. So I went about asking people I knew. They had both concrete information and opinions, which helped guide me in my research. From there, I went to magazines, books, etc. to further research. Asking them first saved me what would have been a lot of wasted time.

But honestly, I find asking folks first to be a great time saver. Add to that, you can gain some real-world based opinions. I think we all know there are books, magazines and websites out there that never, ever give a negative review because they're paid to give only positive reviews. I find that kind of information useless. Chances are, opinions in a place like this are going to be a bit less biased, at least from the viewpoint of a paid reviewer.

That's my 2 cents. I personally have saved time by getting opinions here first. While I don't consider it my only form of research, it is certainly one of many very valid options.

etrain: Both you and Joe appear to be totally missing my main point. Without first having some basic knowledge of a subject ( and the subject can be anything ), trying to get piecemeal advice through a bunch of scattered brief comments in an online forum is a most ineffective way to learn about a topic.

Photography and videography are actually a bigger hobby for me than shooting and hunting, and I spend far more time on photography and videography forums than I do here. And I see this happen all the time: A person asks advice about buying a camera, without having any basic knowledge of photography and how cameras actually work. How is the person supposed to be able to effectively process advice that is given in just a few short sentences, in that sort of brief context, when their knowledge is so very limited? It is far better to first take the time to study and learn about a subject yourself, so that you at least first know some basics going in.

I am rather old school. The Internet did not even exist until I was in my mid-30's. People think that new technology is so great, but it is actually quite inferior in many ways. And there are no shortcuts or free lunches when it comes to gaining knowledge. A person needs to put in some work and do their own homework if they really want to effectively learn about a subject.

Perhaps it is heresy for me to say this, but online forums like this one have their limitations. They are not the do-all, end-all solution.

If a person has no experience or knowledge about shotguns, then any kind of advice, no matter who it comes from, is going to be handicapped by that fact.

You come across as believing that I told him to go look at some sort of reviews, when that is not at all what I advised him to do. Let me explain some by sharing some of my own personal experience.

My Dad bought me two fantastic books written by Jack O'Connor back in the 1960's when I was a teen and was first learning about shooting. One was his COMPLETE BOOK OF RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS, and the other one was his COMPLETE BOOK OF SHOOTING: RIFLES - SHOTGUNS - HANDGUNS. When it came time that I wanted to get serious about trapshooting, my Dad got me a most fantastic book that simply taught a person just about everything one needed to know on the subject: TRAPSHOOTING WITH D. LEE BRAUN AND THE REMINGTON PROS.

My goodness, there was such a fantastic wealth of good, basic information about different kinds of firearms and shooting them in those books. When I recommended to the OP that he read some books, these are the type of publications that I was referring to. Not some brief magazine articles or reviews of guns. I am referring to books that teach fundamental knowledge.

In fact, one can still find the above books for sale used on eBay and Amazon. If the OP would like to learn a lot of valuable fundamental information, I can still recommend them to him, or any other beginning shooter. For although firearms have changed a fair amount in the past 45 years, the fundamentals of how they work and how you use them have not.

So I hope that this clarifies my advice. It may be different from your opinion and Joe's. But getting diverse and different viewpoints on any topic is a healthy thing, in my opinion. The world would be a pretty monotonous place, if no one had different and individual outlooks.

And as shocking as it may seem, people were actually able to learn about guns and shooting before Internet forums existed.

.

 

[U8395279]

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree - no harm in that.

You know, I could not help but notice that you and the OP both live in Vancouver. If you really want to help him out, you should offer to take him to a local range and teach him some basics about shotguns. Let him even shoot some trap and/or skeet with one of your shotguns.


That would be of far greater help to him, than critiquing my advice to him.

 

[etrain16]

etrain: Both you and Joe appear to be totally missing my main point. Without first having some basic knowledge of a subject ( and the subject can be anything ), trying to get piecemeal advice through a bunch of scattered brief comments in an online forum is a most ineffective way to learn about a topic.

Photography and videography are actually a bigger hobby for me than shooting and hunting, and I spend far more time on photography and videography forums than I do here. And I see this happen all the time: A person asks advice about buying a camera, without having any basic knowledge of photography and how cameras actually work. How is the person supposed to be able to effectively process advice that is given in just a few short sentences, in that sort of brief context, when their knowledge is so very limited? It is far better to first take the time to study and learn about a subject yourself, so that you at least first know some basics going in.

I am rather old school. The Internet did not even exist until I was in my mid-30's. People think that new technology is so great, but it is actually quite inferior in many ways. And there are no shortcuts or free lunches when it comes to gaining knowledge. A person needs to put in some work and do their own homework if they really want to effectively learn about a subject.

Perhaps it is heresy for me to say this, but online forums like this one have their limitations. They are not the do-all, end-all solution.

If a person has no experience or knowledge about shotguns, then any kind of advice, no matter who it comes from, is going to be handicapped by that fact.

You come across as believing that I told him to go look at some sort of reviews, when that is not at all what I advised him to do. Let me explain some by sharing some of my own personal experience.

My Dad bought me two fantastic books written by Jack O'Connor back in the 1960's when I was a teen and was first learning about shooting. One was his COMPLETE BOOK OF RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS, and the other one was his COMPLETE BOOK OF SHOOTING: RIFLES - SHOTGUNS - HANDGUNS. When it came time that I wanted to get serious about trapshooting, my Dad got me a most fantastic book that simply taught a person just about everything one needed to know on the subject: TRAPSHOOTING WITH D. LEE BRAUN AND THE REMINGTON PROS.

My goodness, there was such a fantastic wealth of good, basic information about different kinds of firearms and shooting them in those books. When I recommended to the OP that he read some books, these are the type of publications that I was referring to. Not some brief magazine articles or reviews of guns. I am referring to books that teach fundamental knowledge.

In fact, one can still find the above books for sale used on eBay and Amazon. If the OP would like to learn a lot of valuable fundamental information, I can still recommend them to him, or any other beginning shooter. For although firearms have changed a fair amount in the past 45 years, the fundamentals of how they work and how you use them have not.

So I hope that this clarifies my advice. It may be different from your opinion and Joe's. But getting diverse and different viewpoints on any topic is a healthy thing, in my opinion. The world would be a pretty monotonous place, if no one had different and individual outlooks.

And as shocking as it may seem, people were actually able to learn about guns and shooting before Internet forums existed.

.

That's good information.

I think we're roughly on the same page, but perhaps we're saying it in different ways. I think the only place we perhaps disagree is the starting point on the search. I don't see it as an issue starting with a question on a forum. And yes, some replies will be short quips with only a little bit of useful information, but taken on the whole, I would say that it's a good starting point. Like you, photography is a hobby of mine, has been since I was about 10. I had my grandfather to help guide me and teach me how to use the equipment. I also took classes in school and even got to take a class from a former student and co-worker of Ansel Adams.

Perhaps our approaches come from our assumptions about the O.P., based on our own experiences. For me, my assumption is, he asks about the shotguns, and will go from there to learn more about the models that perhaps get the most responses. I also assume that the O.P. is likely to go to a gun club where, as has been my experience, some experienced folks will help him learn how to shoot trap or skeet. In fact, I've found folks at trap ranges to be very helpful to new shooters.

So, maybe asking 'which gun' isn't the ideal first step, but can still lead someone down a path of further discovery.

Anyway, I do think we, as with Joe13, agree that taking up any part of shooting sports takes more information and training than a single question on a forum.

 

[Joe13]

That would be of far greater help to him, than critiquing my advice to him.

Wow, man your way off base and a little insulting.

We all learn a little differently and you are the one that came in judging the guy for a disclaimer that he hadn't "done his own research". If you thought so little of his post then why give him all the good info and scold him all in the same post?

I though my critique of your actual advice about shotguns was very good, I believe I wrote "decent points" from the get go at the beginning of the post. Apologies if that was misconstrued somehow.


As far as help goes, it's not even a matter of "want or not want" to take a guy out and let him sample some of my shotguns - I try to take interested people as often as I can and find great joy in it, but my time right now is severely limited and the best I could do for him was to give him what he asked for "opinions".

Get off the high horse and be a little more neighborly or don't, it's not my place to tell you how to do anything.

So I hope that this clarifies my advice. It may be different from your opinion and Joe's. But getting diverse and different viewpoints on any topic is a healthy thing, in my opinion. The world would be a pretty monotonous place, if no one had different and individual outlooks.

I think you just defined an Internet forum but I'll pass on verifying that.







BTW, I thought "agreeing to disagree" was a much nicer ways to end the discussion between us.

 

[Joe13]

That's good information.

I think we're roughly on the same page, but perhaps we're saying it in different ways. I think the only place we perhaps disagree is the starting point on the search. I don't see it as an issue starting with a question on a forum. And yes, some replies will be short quips with only a little bit of useful information, but taken on the whole, I would say that it's a good starting point. Like you, photography is a hobby of mine, has been since I was about 10. I had my grandfather to help guide me and teach me how to use the equipment. I also took classes in school and even got to take a class from a former student and co-worker of Ansel Adams.

Perhaps our approaches come from our assumptions about the O.P., based on our own experiences. For me, my assumption is, he asks about the shotguns, and will go from there to learn more about the models that perhaps get the most responses. I also assume that the O.P. is likely to go to a gun club where, as has been my experience, some experienced folks will help him learn how to shoot trap or skeet. In fact, I've found folks at trap ranges to be very helpful to new shooters.

So, maybe asking 'which gun' isn't the ideal first step, but can still lead someone down a path of further discovery.

Anyway, I do think we, as with Joe13, agree that taking up any part of shooting sports takes more information and training than a single question on a forum.

Lol, great minds or one of us is stalking the other

Not trying to gang up on anyone but I spent a little while editing my post and felt like posting even if etrain beat me too most of it.

 

[tlfreek]

i think Lance wasted a whole bunch of time with his insights which are of little value to me. I was curious about an all around shotgun for skeet/trap. If I cannot ask those who are closest to the "know" who can I ask? Keep in mind the research I do will based on input from people similar to those that make up this forum. If someone told me to go spend 2K on a gun but cannot explain why it wont matter and the advice overlooked, but as you can tell from the responses there is a consistent theme running throughout. I did get a chuckle out of the person needs to be more self reliant to be successful in life. BTW I have read 35 books since last March in addition my day job which is really more like a life style. thanks for your worthless drivel.

 

[tlfreek]

damn it I just recounted....it's 38 books - sorry.